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| ▲ | gs17 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > If this were true, why didn’t the chatbot immediately recognize that the word “Taiwan” should trigger the response? Not recognizing they were outputting wrongthink until after it was being streamed to the user is a known behavior with some Chinese chatbot apps. A quick search found an example of DeepSeek doing it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1ic3kl6/deepseek_ce... I don't think his story is genuine, but it showing the "wrong" answer before correcting itself is known behavior. EDIT: Here's an example of it outputting a full response about Taiwan specifically before removing it: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1i7ceol/... | | |
| ▲ | recursive 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I've seen it from the non-Chinese ChatGPT before. Something was deemed to be violating the sensitivity filters or something, and it refused to answer. But only after I saw part of the real answer streamed to the output, and then redacted and replaced. |
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| ▲ | CWuestefeld 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is manifestly false. My wife grew up in Shanghai, and you'll have to go quite some distance to find someone more critical of the PRC and CCP than she is. And it's with good reason. She grew up during the cultural revolution, and was largely raised by her grandmother because literally every other person in her extended family was in prison or work camp, not because of anything they had actually done wrong, but for political reasons because the whole family was blacklisted. And that's not just the old days. Her father died as a direct result of Chinese Covid policy. During the pandemic her cousins still in the country would ask her (on Skype) "is X true?", and largely their perception of what was going on was false. She would exfiltrate encrypted news reports to them - until those started getting blocked. Her dad's estate still has affairs that need to be resolved, but we've decided not to return to China until Xi is gone, as it's just not safe. It doesn't get much airplay, but there are currently a couple of hundred Americans who are being illegally detained in China right now. It's not worth the risk. My first trip to China was about 30 years ago, shortly after we got married. And back then, I would have said that you were right. Honestly, it felt like for the average person in their day-to-day-lives, the Chinese were less under the governmental thumb than we are. People from the countryside would bring their produce into the city to sell, or cook dumplings and buns to sell on the side of the street - stuff that in America we'd have to get permits for. It seemed that the oligarchy had an understanding with the people: let us control the big picture, and we'll look the other way for the little things. But Chinese politics is a pendulum swinging very widely. From Tienanmen Square and Tank Man, it had swung quite a bit the other way. But today, it's come back 180-degrees. Xi is really trying for a Cultural Revolution 2.0. These impressions largely match what I hear from other Chinese immigrants - except for Party members, who tend not to want to talk about it at all. I'm afraid that you've been listening to too much propaganda. | | |
| ▲ | 3rodents 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | “there are currently a couple of hundred Americans who are being illegally detained in China right now” Compared to the U.S. which currently has no foreign nationals detained illegally? Pick any country and you will find political dissidents. The existence of angry emigrants is not evidence that a country is worse than we could ever imagine. | | |
| ▲ | CWuestefeld 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The fact that the USA and others are also trending authoritarian isn't really relevant. The point I was trying to make is that people have legit fears of the PRC government, enough so that legitimate business like settling a deceased parent's affairs isn't sufficient to convince people to enter the country. You haven't addressed at all the parts about blacklisting whole families for political reasons, or horrible return-to-normal policies for covid-19 three years ago, or the general pendulum-swing-back-to-evil trend. | | |
| ▲ | fasbiner an hour ago | parent [-] | | I don't doubt you, but what if someone's else's wife felt differently. Would that counteract your wife? Or is your wife special in an objective sense and her intuitions about hypotheticals are more valid than anyone else's? Your wife feels a certain way and wanted to avoid a certain hypothetical. But since it didn't happen, we have no way of knowing how relevant these feelings are. How can we address blacklisting and covid response if you are insisting that any comparison isn't relevant and that we should evaluate it with no baseline? |
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| ▲ | netsharc an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sheesh, an actual Whataboutism. The fact that "the US does it too!" won't help Grandparent poster/his wife if they get detained in China. GP says "there are currently a couple of hundred Americans who are being illegally detained in China right now", most likely they are dual citizens, or were born in China, and from China's point of view, one can't lose the Chinese citizenship, and they're detaining their own citizens. | | |
| ▲ | fasbiner an hour ago | parent [-] | | I would also like to know if these are dual citizens or not. I think it would be newsworthy if hundreds of US passport holders who do not have chinese passports also were being held in China and not charged with any crime and unable to access consular services. Sensationalizing claims then qualifying them later is inherently dishonest. |
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| ▲ | vkou an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Her father died as a direct result of Chinese Covid policy. Is it generally normal to hold countries accountable for every person that dies due to their COVID policies? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_by_country_a... | |
| ▲ | hungryhobo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | i don't doubt your experience, but just know it might be skewed and not representative of everyone's opinions the sense i get from my chinese friends are that the CCP is an annoying parent but they understand the challenges both domestic and international and largely agree with the compromises | | |
| ▲ | elefanten an hour ago | parent [-] | | How do they feel about and respond when asked about the Taiwan question? Do they either clam up or act like it's a mortal insult to suggest that an independent democratic nation should not live in fear of impending violent conquest? Because that's the kind of reaction that makes the reports of "happy life, all's good" a little harder to digest. Not saying that's a unanimous opinion / response, of course. But it certainly seems to be the default. | | |
| ▲ | fasbiner an hour ago | parent [-] | | The majority of US support for Taiwan and it's current situation is owed entirely to supporting a military junta from the mainland that massacred the local Taiwainese who objected to it and suppressed civil society. Are you saying you would've been neutral on an invasion of Taiwan before 1985 or so, since it wasn't a democracy? |
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| ▲ | sarchertech 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >And as for foreigners, our view of China is far worse than it actually is, China doesn’t need to hide anything, people who visit China will come away with a more positive view of the country than those who do not visit. To the extent that's true, it's because they won't let you see the uyghur reeducation camps. | | |
| ▲ | analog8374 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | What's the coordinates? I want to look at it on Google maps | | | |
| ▲ | MaxPock 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We can get videos from remote hellholes of Africa like Dafur and Mali but apparently,that's too much to ask in Xinjiang.We can't even get satellite images to show us evidence of this so called wigur genocide | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c... | | |
| ▲ | xanthor 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you didn't have British Crown state media wrapping a narrative around these images you wouldn't think anything of them. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Would you take a group of Swiss journalists? https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... How about the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights? | | |
| ▲ | xanthor an hour ago | parent [-] | | Why should I take the claims of journalists without evidence? | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | So here’s some of the evidence that we have The Xinjiang Police Files: A 2022 leak of over 5,000 police photos, internal documents, and spreadsheets revealing the scale of detention, with images showing prisoners shackled, hooded, and under guard in 2018. The China Cables (2019): Leaked, classified instructions on how to run the camps, including directives to ensure "no escapes" promote "repentance" and use full video surveillance. Satellite Imagery Analysis: Researchers from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) identified over 380 suspected detention sites, including new construction and expansion, often featuring guard towers and razor wire. Testimonies and Research: Former detainees have reported torture, rape, forced sterilization, and intense indoctrination to abandon their religious and cultural practices. Government Documentation: The Karakax list, a leaked document, provided detailed, case-by-case justifications for detention, such as having too many children or wearing a veil. Are you this incredulous when someone reports that the US locks up more Black people capita than White?
Someone defending the US could make the same claims you are that everyone is out to make the US look bad. That multiple independent groups are fabricating evidence etc… | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because it's their job? Because it's corroborated by multiple other journalists and even a UN report? Why should I take the denials of a pseudnonymous online account without evidence? |
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| ▲ | Thlom 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | On the other hand you can travel to Xinjiang, visit mosques, Uighur museums, experience Uighur culture, observe Uighurs just minding their own business in their daily life. | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > visit mosques Would love to know how that works in a country that outlaws christian churches that aren't tied to the state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_church_(China) | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “Subjected to arbitrary arrests and forced labor, sterilizations to torture, more than one million Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other minorities are estimated to have been locked up in so-called “re-education” camps and prisons in the region over the last decade, according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.” https://gijn.org/stories/interview-uyghur-victims-xinjiang-p... | | |
| ▲ | xanthor 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | UN High Commissioner on Human Rights Michelle Bachelet actually visited Xinjiang and made no such assertions. Whoever did release the report you're referencing, they waited until immediately after her term ended to release it (within hours). Pretty conspicuous. | | |
| ▲ | sarchertech 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | No it was actually released hours before her term ended not after. And the reason she held off releasing until the last minute is because of pressure from China to refrain from releasing it. In addition to releasing the report she released a 131 page Chinese rebuttal simultaneously. Not the actions one would expect of a shadowy group at the UN out to get China. | | |
| ▲ | xanthor an hour ago | parent [-] | | No it was released Sept 1 Geneva time, and her term ended Aug 31. | | |
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| ▲ | hungryhobo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | it's been debunked a million times, gotta move on | | |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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