| ▲ | janalsncm 4 hours ago |
| Maybe it goes without saying, but the reason you don’t mind the bus in Europe is not because you are European but because the European buses are nicer. The things you say about noise and pollution are also true in the US, and American drivers are acutely aware of them. But the alternative is not a European bus, so people drive. |
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| ▲ | x0x0 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| But also too, packed with junkies who, at best, behave erratically and at worse assault randoms. Taking the bus around sf makes it immediately clear why (not all, but most) people who have options choose them. |
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| ▲ | iamcalledrob an hour ago | parent [-] | | Honestly, there aren't that many crazy people on the SF Muni/busses. The detractor for taking these services is speed and frequency. Even factoring in parking, traffic, and bus lanes, it's much faster to drive within SF than take the bus. Stopping every 2 blocks and missing every other green light kills throughput. My local bus stop to connect to BART supposedly had service every 20 mins, but often a bus would be out of service and the wait would be 30-40 minutes. Unless a bus was right there, it was faster to walk. | | |
| ▲ | singron 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The crazy people depend a lot on routes, the part of the city, and the time of day. E.g. the 1 (Sacramento St/California St) is basically fine all the time. The 38 (Geary) and 14 (Mission) are OK during the commute rush since they are packed full of commuters, but outside of those times, you will eventually see all kinds of unsocial behavior (shouting, fights, defecation, etc.), especially closer to civic center/tenderloin/mission. | |
| ▲ | JuniperMesos an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't need that many crazy people on SF Muni/buses for it to cause a problem for everyone else who might want to take a bus. But yeah the fact that it's often faster to walk (and definitely faster to take a bike/scooter) is also an issue. |
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| ▲ | enraged_camel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >> Maybe it goes without saying, but the reason you don’t mind the bus in Europe is not because you are European but because the European buses are nicer. Actually I think it is both. Car culture in Europe is nowhere as dominant as it is in the US. Many Europeans grow up with public transportation as the default mode of getting around. So they are more likely to be accustomed to things that become grievances for Americans. I was born and raised in Turkey, and now live in the US. In Turkey when you take a bus or train during rush hour you’re often packed like sardines. No concept of personal space. Same with many cities in Europe. That type of thing wouldn’t fly anywhere in the US, except maybe NYC. Even then though New Yorkers tend to dislike it. |
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| ▲ | angmarsbane 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There's an intimidation factor that a lot of Americans won't quickly admit to when it comes to taking the bus. They don't know if they can tap with their phone to pay, if they need cash, if they can use change, if they need exact cash/change, if they need a specific transit card etc. They don't know the etiquette for asking to get off the bus and sometimes it varies by bus design. They don't know the routes or the time schedules and find it confusing and overwhelming and often have a low tolerance for the embarrassment that can come with publicly learning something. | | |
| ▲ | sfink an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes. As long as we're looking for relatively easy or cheap improvements, I believe that UX is a huge one. Buses have a long tradition of user-hostile design. "Exact change only", unhelpful and condescending and impatient drivers, unwritten etiquette rules, and everything else you listed. It has always baffled me why they make it so hard for first-time users in particular. Sure, they mostly care about the regular customers who make up 99% of their passengers, but everyone has to be a first-timer before they can be a long-timer. It's not just UX papercuts, the experience seems designed to be maximally hostile. Is it because one more marginal person is a little more delay, a little more crowding, etc? It feels like there are perverse incentives at work. | |
| ▲ | blauditore 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's the same in Europe. There are many car drivers who would never admit that, but they just don't want to leave their comfort zone and learn how to use public transport. But when asked they will say stuff like "well, we live a bit outside the city", or "now with kids you basically need a car". |
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| ▲ | retired an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > public transportation as the default mode Do you have any sources on that? In basically any European country the car dominates and is used far more than public transport. Even in cycle-friendly Netherlands the majority of people go to work by car. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/verkeer-en-vervoer/pe... | | |
| ▲ | stevesimmons 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That's not majority of trips, it's by distance travelled. Basically in the Netherlands, if you're within 5-10km, you go by bike. If public transport is reasonable, which it mostly is in urban areas, you take it. You'd almost never choose car within a major city, unless it's on the outskirts. |
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| ▲ | miki123211 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And this starts in primary school. Make it legal for kids to move around on their own and take transit to school, just like they do in most of Europe and beyond. Parents are lazy, so many kids will. That's a lesson in public transportation use right there. | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Make it legal for kids to move around on their own and take transit to school ... it is legal though? But if you live in the typical US suburb then good luck with that. You'll catch a district provided bus to school and if your parents don't want to drive you somewhere you'll ride a bike or just not go. Taking the bus in the suburbs often means walking 15 minutes, waiting on 45+ minute service, and switching routes at a transfer station. It's an ordeal to say the least. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah suburban bus service really just doesn't work. Not enough density. I live in a small town and they try but it's the same issue. Most buses drive around nearly empty and just slow down the cars that are following. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Rush hour CTA in Chicago is packed like that at least on some routes in and out of downtown. Or rather it used to be, I have not lived there in quite some time so not sure about today. | |
| ▲ | kjkjadksj 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There is also the monetary angle. How many european households can afford a car for both parents and a car each for two kids, registered, insured, paid for to park wherever they go? Even if you are poor in the US cars are remarkably accessible. You can finance a used car with no credit and a couple dozen dollars a month. | | |
| ▲ | miki123211 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And the parking angle. Europe builds apartment complexes which are ~3 to ~10 stories tall, the US builds sprawling suburbs, zoned so that there's no grocery store in sight. If you're packed 3 to an apartment in a 10-story complex, it's unlikely there's enough parking for all of you. |
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| ▲ | tclancy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You are stating unequivocally that every bus in every European country is nicer than the average bus in the US? |
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