| ▲ | New evidence that Cantor plagiarized Dedekind?(quantamagazine.org) |
| 36 points by rbanffy 3 days ago | 20 comments |
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| ▲ | dkarl an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| > In their 1872 papers, though, Cantor and Dedekind had found a way to construct a number line that was complete. No matter how much you zoomed in on any given stretch of it, it remained an unbroken expanse of infinitely many real numbers, continuously linked. > Suddenly, the monstrosity of infinity, long feared by mathematicians, could no longer be relegated to some unreachable part of the number line. It hid within its every crevice. I'm vaguely familiar with some of the mathematics, but I have no idea what this is trying to say. The infinity of the rational numbers had been known a thousand years prior by the Greeks, including by Zeno whom the article already mentioned. The Greeks also knew that some quantities could not be expressed as rational numbers. I would assume the density of irrational numbers was already known as well? Give x < y, it's easy to construct x + (y-x)(sqrt(2))/2. I don't get what "suddenly" became apparent. |
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| ▲ | markisus 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Before their papers, mathematicians had assumed that even though the number line might look like a continuous object, if you zoomed in far enough, you’d eventually find gaps. I'll try to interpret this sentence. We all have some mental imagery that comes to mind when we think about the number line. Before Cantor and Dedekind, this image was usually a series of infinitely many dots, arranged along a horizontal line. Each dot corresponds to some quantity like sqrt(2), pi, that arises from mathematical manipulation of equations or geometric figures. If we ever find a gap between two dots, we can think of a new dot to place between them (an easy way is to take their average). However, we will also be adding two new gaps. So this mental image also has infinitely many gaps. Dedekind and Cantor figured out a way to fill all the gaps simultaneously instead of dot by dot. This method created a new sort of infinity that mathematicians were unfamiliar with, and it was vastly larger than the gappy sort of infinity they were used to picturing. | |
| ▲ | wrsh07 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You can construct sequences of rational numbers where the limit is not rational (eg it's sqrt 2) Trivially, the sequence of numbers who are the truncated decimal expansion of root 2 (eg 1.4, 1.41. 1.414, ...) although I find this somewhat unsatisfying. With the real numbers there are no gaps. There are no sequences of reals where the limit of that sequence is not a real number | |
| ▲ | zeroonetwothree 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Complete just means the limit of every sequence is part of the set. So there’s no way to “escape” merely by going to infinity. Rational numbers do not have this property. How to construct the real numbers as a set with that property (and the other usual properties) formally and rigorously took quite a long time to figure out. | |
| ▲ | JadeNB a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Give x < y, it's easy to construct x + (y-x)(sqrt(2))/2. That's only obviously irrational if x and y are rational. | |
| ▲ | terminalbraid 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The density does not dictate cardinality which is what this article is about. | |
| ▲ | pfortuny 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The continuum. Connectedness. |
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| ▲ | leephillips 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “Noether, who was Jewish, fled from Germany to the U.S., where she died two years later from cancer” It wasn’t two years, and it wasn’t cancer. These details are unimportant to the (quite interesting) story, but the error is a sign that the author copies information from unreliable secondary sources, which puts the other facts in the article in doubt. I wrote to him about the error when the article first appeared, but received no reply. Noether’s real story is recounted in https://amzn.to/3YZZB4W. |
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| ▲ | lich_king 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I have an opinion about the editorial style of Quanta that I don't think it's popular here (judging by how often they get upvoted), but I think it's a symptom of that. They cover science, but the template they follow pretty consistently is a vague title that oversells the premise and then an article filled with human-interest details and appeals to implications. This makes it easy for everyone to follow along and have an opinion, but I feel like science is a distant backdrop and never the actual subject. In this article, what's the one tidbit of scientific knowledge that we gain? Dedekind's and Cantor's work is described only in poetic abstractions ("a wedge he could use to pry open the forbidden gates of infinity"). When the focus is writing a gossip column for eloquent people, precision doesn't matter all that much. | | |
| ▲ | ajkjk 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think your opinion is popular here. Quanta is, while better than nothing, universally disappointing. It seems like it would be much easier for them to do a better job -- write less vaguely, fact-check more, assume the reader is a bit more intelligent. |
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| ▲ | mymacbook an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thank you! After Benj Edwards and Kyle Orland's Ars Technica article they published using AI (while saying they didn't), and all the while their article was about an AI agent publishing a hit piece on Scott Shambaugh (matplotlib maintainer), I feel like I now assume journalists are using AI and things need to be fact-checked just as we do for our AI interactions. I appreciate hearing about details like this and getting the source directly. I hope Kristina Armitage and Michael Kanyongolo from Quanta Magazine respond and you can update us! Scott's Blog on Hit Piece: https://theshamblog.com/an-ai-agent-published-a-hit-piece-on...
Ars Editor Note: https://arstechnica.com/staff/2026/02/editors-note-retractio...
Ars Retraction: https://arstechnica.com/ai/2026/02/after-a-routine-code-reje... | | | |
| ▲ | QuesnayJr 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you citing your own book? |
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| ▲ | renewiltord 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This whole plagiarism thing is too overwrought these days. People discuss stuff and the idea forms in the discussion between the two. Then one writes it up. Oh he plagiarized the other. I don’t know man. |
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| ▲ | dang 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I think we can do without the baity title since most HN readers should know who Cantor and Dedekind are. Edit: okay, maybe not Dedekind. If someone wants to suggest a better title (i.e. more accurate and neutral, and preferably using representative language from the article itself), we can change it again. |
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| ▲ | tgv 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm here for the 19th century drama. Imagine the head lines! Cantor's Continuity Credentials Cancelled: Clear Cut Copy Cat Case!
Millions of views for Tiktoks about homomorphisms and aleph numbers. Just the news we need right now. | |
| ▲ | collabs 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This comment made me think of this xkcd 2501 https://xkcd.com/2501 There really is an xkcd for everything | |
| ▲ | tchalla 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > since most HN readers should know who Cantor and Dedekind are. Show up with your hands here if you didn’t know either Cantor or Dedekind. | |
| ▲ | AndrewKemendo 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Hard disagree I’ll go out on a limb and say the majority of HN users at this point do not know the context and implications of the impact of Cantor - would probably have only heard the name in the context of mathematics but no deeper I’d go further and say the majority have not ever heard of the name Dedekind | |
| ▲ | zenethian 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I am not a mathematician; I barely knew who Cantor was and had never heard of Dedekind. I would have likely not read the article without the title being so sensational. Your assumption sits upon the tip of your nose. |
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