| ▲ | vsgherzi 4 hours ago |
| Just as manufacturing in China took time manufacturing in the US will take time. The US has lost much of its skilled labor and mom and pop parts shop. If we have any hope of re-invigorating this some large company is going to have to bite the bullet. Chicken and egg problem imo. I'll leave whether this is worth it or not up to the economists. |
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| ▲ | whynotmaybe 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| No, US didn't lose it, we collectively decided that whenever we buy something, the price was the most important aspect. It's like everybody forgot that their neighbour's job depend on them. We're repeating the same pattern with online shopping, malls and stores everywhere are closing because of our collective actions, we're not losing them like I lost my keys. |
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| ▲ | vsgherzi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What you're describing literally is us losing it. We lost in the market. Price was above all for the market and we didn't adapt and lost. I agree with the point you're trying to make but we did lose it in the sense that we do not have the manufacturing capacity we once did | |
| ▲ | denkmoon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Homo economicus' desire for a 'good deal' or 'a bargain' will kill us. | | |
| ▲ | SlightlyLeftPad 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | “Why would I hire X when I can get it for $20 a month on ChatGPT?” Hmm, I don’t like the sound of that. |
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| ▲ | shiroiuma 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >We're repeating the same pattern with online shopping, malls and stores everywhere are closing because of our collective actions Are you talking about the small mom-n-pop shops that are only open when most people are at work, while with online shopping you can do it any time 24/7? The same mom-n-pop shops that refused to take returns, and had poor selection and would take weeks to order something for you, at a ridiculous price? There are a lot of really good reasons online shopping has put so many stores out of business. | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Who's we? The college educated white collar professionals who are grossly over-represented in policy discourse? Middle america, the formerly industrial northeast and the former bulk industry west have been complaining about this shit policy for over a generation. Implicitly shuttering our manufacturing and heavy industry by subjecting it to policy that we knew would make it increasingly noncompetitive at the margin and would prevent continuing investment was a macro/federal level economic policy choice that was actively pursued for approx 50yr. | | |
| ▲ | rangestransform an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Not overrepresented enough given that middle America has disproportionate per capita voting power | | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's not just middle america. It's the entire economy that deals in things first and numbers and ideas second. |
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| ▲ | Braxton1980 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | What government policies are you referring to? Businesses moved manufacturing to China because their goal is to make as much money as possible. The only potential barrier is if US citizens would care that it wasn't made in America. Products are labeled and most people don't care. This is an American quality where a person who works in a factory that makes extension cords and needs their job to survive would buy the cheaper lamp even though it's made in China. Most people aren't willing to make financial sacrifices to help people they don't know EVEN if they might be affected by another person having the same belief. |
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| ▲ | donw 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We collectively decided nothing. Our political/ruling class wanted more of the pie for themselves, dropped the trade barriers protecting American industry, and gorged themselves on the arbitrage as manufacturing flowed to our chief geopolitcal rival, who was quite happy to accept such a generous gift. | | |
| ▲ | Braxton1980 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | People could have supported American manufacturing by buying American. You're saying the government should intervene in the economy in a significant because the majority of people are just selfish | |
| ▲ | insane_dreamer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's true, but we also collectively decided to buy cheap stuff from Walmart instead of buying from the local town store, creating a race to the bottom. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Ya, because the same item was way more at other stores and people didn't understand why. Most of it was logistics at first and not just cheap items. That and buying in very very large lots. It was over time that the hunt for more profits started chasing cheap items. Really the mom and pop store was set to die in the US because of car culture. You'll pay a bit more to walk to the closest store, but if you're already driving there is very little cost in driving to a store a little farther is almost nothing. | |
| ▲ | plagiarist an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or did stagnant wages drive Americans to buy what they could afford instead of products that would last? We also have many US manufacturers moving sourcing their subcomponents from overseas to save a few cents per unit, there's no way to prevent that, nobody is going to check the BOM from everything they ever buy. I think collective behavior is a large component but it is not quite right to declare it as the primary driver. | | |
| ▲ | Braxton1980 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What if people could have purchased American made goods but this means that they would have had to have less or what they did get wouldn't be as good. For example, I get a 40inch TV instead of a 65 inch or I buy a set of American made screwdrivers but then I can't get a bottle of Vodka. Most people have their basic needs met. They just want as much as possible for their money even if it harms other Americans. At the same time, if they happen to work at a factory making extension cords, they'll want people to buy their US made cords to protect their job. Because most people are selfish when it comes to people who aren't family or friends. |
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| ▲ | ihsw 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | tencentshill 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It needs a careful long term approach from real leaders. Not a run-and-gun, corrupt, chaotic president throwing tariffs (taxes) up on a whim. |
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| ▲ | 0_____0 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is no contingent in the US federal government that has a coherent plan for doing what you're talking about. The investment in capability that is necessary to build the next generation of manufacturing capabilities in the US is simply not within the public imagination. | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think it's something that can be centrally planned well. If the US changes their environmental regulations to match China, lowered their tax-to-GDP ratio to match China, changed their worker regulations to match China, and then opened up free immigration from Mexico for cheap factory labor then the "free" market would likely take care of opening up quite a bit more manufacturing. | | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Hell, don't even match it. Split the difference and it would unleash a torrent of economic activity. It will never happen because there's too many industries and jobs that only exist because of all that regulation and will fight tooth and nail to avoid a short term haircut. |
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| ▲ | ljsprague 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | | |
| ▲ | tokyobreakfast 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | hn_acc1 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You mean, like FoxConn took $B from orange guy, promised 10K+ jobs, then sat on the land for a few years and did nothing? Sure, let's replicate that at scale.. | | |
| ▲ | Krustopolis 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Things take time. Especially during the pandemic and its aftermath. How you been down to Arizona lately to see the developments? Not just the manufacturing itself but everything that has sprung up around it? It’s impressive. |
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| ▲ | daymanstep 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Managed to do what? | | |
| ▲ | nxm 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | At least he’s trying. Instead of the other side just yelling about “corporate greed” while doing nothing but collecting lobbying money as jobs continue to get exported. | |
| ▲ | tokyobreakfast 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Build products in the US. Those jobs Steve Jobs told Obama are "never coming back". | | |
| ▲ | daymanstep 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Last time I checked, manufacturing employment hasn't gone up since Jan 2025. | |
| ▲ | JohnTHaller 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Last time I checked, manufacturing employment hasn't gone up since Jan 2025. It's gone down according to the official US numbers, as expected | |
| ▲ | hn_acc1 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Which of those have come back? | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Manufacturing output has been ~monotonically increasing except during the great recession for the past 3 decades. Jobs though have been basically monotonically decreasing. We're still getting the strategic benefits of more manufacturing, just have fewer people getting their thumbs cut off in stamping machines or melted alive in steel mills. | | |
| ▲ | ryandrake 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think "we" are getting benefits from more manufacturing. Surely the company CEOs and shareholders are, but the average Joe who doesn't hold shares and just needs an honest, well-paying job is not reaping any benefits. | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I view manufacturing to have some parallels like farming. An advanced society is eventually going to get the employment numbers down low through inevitable automation and technology. The goal then is to continue to enjoy having the food and things you made despite not being employed in those fields. How exactly that happens is up for debate. |
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| ▲ | throwaway894345 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | to be clear, the US has been rapidly losing manufacturing jobs since the orange coronation. |
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| ▲ | xienze 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | He’s at least getting companies to pretend like they’re going to try. That’s a starting point. Before, the best you’d get out of these CEOs is “LOL those jobs are never coming back, learn to code or whatever else hasn’t been outsourced fully yet.” | | |
| ▲ | throwaway894345 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | His predecessor worked with Congress to actually bring microchip manufacturing back to the US and tried to keep us competitive with EV manufacturing (not to mention the infrastructure investments that are necessary for any serious manufacturing effort). Those were real commitments. Extorting CEOs to announce investments (like the Zuckerberg hot mic incident) is not worth anything to me. Meanwhile the US has been hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs for the last year. |
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| ▲ | rockskon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No amount of time will let the U.S. - a country of 348 million people - replicate what China - a country with 1.4 billion people - a can do with manufacturing. This isn't "working harder". This isn't "rebuilding infrastructure". This isn't "training people in trades". The numbers are so cartoonishly lopsided as to be a non-starter for categorically replacing Chinese manufacturing. |
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| ▲ | derektank 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 600 million people live in North America. 1 billion people live in the Americas. Another billion live on the Pacific rim in non-Chinese countries. Establishing regulatory harmony across all those countries is obviously not possible in the same way it is in a single authoritarian state, but if the US made it a priority to create a trade bloc capable of replicating China’s manufacturing capacity, it probably could. | | |
| ▲ | cmrdporcupine an hour ago | parent [-] | | Establishing regulatory harmony is not only not possible but the current regime is working in exactly the opposite direction. If the US wants to take on China, and actually needs Canada's help to do it -- I can assure you they just set themselves back 10-20 years from achieving that. We no longer have any interest. The labour forces of Mexico and Canada are not at the US's disposal for these kind of games anymore. For several decades we have been exploited by the US for low wages and cheap resources -- and now there's a regime that's making cheap political points by accusing us of the opposite while trying to emmiserate our populace. So, yeah, no thanks. |
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| ▲ | vsgherzi 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | we don't have to entirely replace Chinese manufacturing to build back American manufacturing that's a false dichotomy.To compete we'll just have to be more revolutionary than the manufacturing industry already is. | |
| ▲ | Romario77 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | both are pretty big numbers and I think are pretty capable to do mass manufacturing. As evidenced by many industries that US had and still has. it could be less economical, so Apple has to innovate to be competitive on pricing - with automation, robots, etc. |
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| ▲ | 9dev 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Are you sure that’s actually what you want though, competing with China in skilled labor? |
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| ▲ | rob74 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, once AI takes over most of the white collar jobs, people will have to do something to put food on the table, and not all of them can be gig workers. Or do you see ideas like Universal Basic Income as an alternative for the US? | | |
| ▲ | nkassis 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's argument is a bit rough given manufacturing is one of the areas seeing the most automation progress and success. One of the main reason it's not more successful is labor costs can be lower than automation that wouldn't be true if we wanted to replace the income of white collar workers in the US. If we end up in a place where AI and automation take over then yeah I think we start looking at alternative income sources and economic system. Just like star trek predicted we would do after WW3. |
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| ▲ | vsgherzi 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Of course I do. Competition can only be good here. | | |
| ▲ | hn_acc1 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You willing to work 996? I would prefer some form of work-life balance. | | |
| ▲ | vsgherzi 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why is that the only way to accomplish that? We'll have to restart manufacturing while also keeping wages livable and the work the US does competitive. As I said above we'll just have to be more revolutionary than the manufacturing industry already is. |
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| ▲ | throwaway894345 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There’s no world in which large scale manufacturing is returning to the US. Not only are our labor costs dramatically higher than in east asia, but we also lack the logistics infrastructure to quickly produce components and get them to their next stage of assembly quickly. And we can’t just build that stuff because we don’t have a totalitarian government that can just bulldoze farms and houses to run a highway or railway. We also are less interested in pollution, which raises the sticker price on US manufacturing. If we’re serious about it, we are going to have to commit ourselves to economy-tanking tariffs (like thousands of percents) for many decades until the US worker is as poor as the Vietnamese worker. |
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| ▲ | vsgherzi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In spite of no totalitarian government and things like environmental regulations the US still is able to be one of the most innovative nations on the planet. I don't think we need those things to be able to have manufacturing in the united states. We had it at one point and we can do it again. It's not going to be easy and it's going to need some real breakthrough ideas before we can actually compete. Apple here is the first step. | | |
| ▲ | azinman2 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The US had it when the rest of the world was severely bombed during WWII, and a lot of the world was very undeveloped. Things changed. | |
| ▲ | throwaway894345 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | We never had manufacturing within an order of magnitude of China's scale in the US. Probably not within two orders of magnitude. When the US was a manufacturing powerhouse, we had far cheaper labor, far fewer environmental regulations, far fewer labor regulations, and far simpler supply chains. > Apple here is the first step. Pretty sure the much-touted Foxconn plant in Wisconsin was the first step, and just like this one it will be scaled down to a few hundred jobs as soon as possible. |
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| ▲ | cindyllm 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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