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hmokiguess 7 hours ago

Are these things actually useful or do we have an epidemic of loneliness and a deep need for vanity AI happening?

I say this because I can’t bring myself to finding a use case for it other than a toy that gets boring fast.

One example in some repos around scheduling capabilities mentions “open these things and summarize them for me” this feels like spam and noise not value.

A while back we had a trending tweet about wanting AI to do your dishes for you and not replace creativity, I guess this feels like an attempt to go there but to me it’s the wrong implementation.

simonw 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't have a Claw running right now and I wish I did. I want to start archiving the livestream from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGL7A2YgUY - YouTube only provide access to the last 12 hours. If I had a Claw on a 24/7 machine somewhere I could message it and say "permanent archive this stream" and it would figure it out and do it.

kzahel 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I made a basic "claw starter" that you could try. You can progressively go deeper. It starts with just a little "private data" folder that you scaffold and ask the agent to setup the SOUL and stuff, and then you can optionally add in the few builtin skills, or have your assistant start the scheduler/gateway thing if you want to talk to it over telegram.

If you've been shy with using openclaw, give this a try!

https://github.com/kzahel/claw-starter

[I also created https://yepanywhere.com/ - kind of the same philosophy - no custom harnesses, re-use claude/codex session history]

btouellette 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not a great use case for Claw really. I'm sure ChatGPT can one shot a Python script to do this with yt-dlp and give you instructions on how to set it up as a service

phil21 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah it’s all the stuff beyond the one-shotting of the script that make it useful though.

You just get the final result. The video you requested saved.

No copy pasting, no iterating back and forth due to python version issues, no messing around with systemd or whatever else, etc.

Basically the difference between a howto doc providing you instructions and all the tools you need to download and install vs just having your junior sysadmin handle it and hand it off after testing.

These are miles apart in my mind. The script is the easy part.

Barbing 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

ChatGPT can do it w/o draining your bank account etc. I’d agree…

But for speed only, I think it’s “your idea but worse” when the steps include something AND instructions on how to do something else. The Signal/Telegram bot will handle it E2E (maybe using a ton more tokens than a webchat but fast). If I’m not mistaken.

simonw 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You've gotta run it somewhere though - that's the harder part.

enraged_camel 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Not to mention, the whole point is to not end up with a bunch of one-off Python scripts for every little thing that occurs to you, right?

jmholla 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why not? Why not have your agent write and automate those one off scripts instead of burning tokens on repeated actions?

qudat 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean that’s sort of where I think this all will land. Use something like happy cli to connect to CC in a workspace directory where it can generate scripts, markdown files, and systemd unit files. I don’t see why you’d need more than that.

That cuts 500k LoC from the stack and leverages a frontier tool like CC

kzahel 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We think alike!

https://github.com/kzahel/claw-starter

Systemd basic script + markdown + (bring whatever agent CLI)

That's I think basically what you describe. I've been using it for the past two days it's very very basic but it's a I think it gives you everything you actually need sort of the minimal open claw without a custom harness and 5k loc or 50k or w/e. The cool thing is that it can just grow naturally and you can audit as it grows

hmokiguess 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah that’s a good point. I use a fork of https://github.com/tiann/hapi with Tailscale for this very reason and it works well

hmokiguess 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah that fits the “do the dishes for me” thing, but do you still think the implementation behind it is the proper and best way to go about it?

simonw 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't, which is why I'm not running OpenClaw on the live internet right now. See also Andrej's original tweet.

esseph 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This sounds like it would be better suited for a shell script.

grogenaut an hour ago | parent [-]

what's a shell script? sounds like an implementation detail that I don't care about, I just want something to do a thing for me.

snigsnog 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Enjoy losing your money, getting your personal information leaked, and possibly getting arrested when and if it does something illegal on your command.

esseph an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I let out a big sigh reading this and would like to move to a different planet now.

grogenaut 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm channeling other people. But that's what most people want, just the problem solved for them. Not to write programs.

I love doing mechanical things, I also just want my truck to run.

verdverm 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you know the method already, why is cron insufficient? Why use a meat bag to message over cron? Is that the setup phase for a new stream?

hmokiguess 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This reminded me of a video I saw recently where someone mentioned that piracy is most often a service problem not a price problem. That back in the days people used torrents to get movies because they worked well and were better than searching for stuff at blockbuster, then, came Netflix, and they flocked to it and paid the premium for convenience without even thinking twice and piracy decreased.

I think the analogy here holds, people are lazy, we have a service and UX problem with these tools right now, so convenience beats quality and control for the average Joe.

grogenaut an hour ago | parent [-]

Lazy is a bit pejorative.

Other than the people that hang out here, most people don't want to write software, they want to make problems go away and things happen and make their lives easier and more fun.

we can magically have the ai do things for us now... for most people that's perfect. it opens programming up to others but do they care how it happens? does your ceo care what programming language or library you use (if they do do you want to work there)?

simonw 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'd have to setup a new VPS, which is fiddly to do from a phone. If I had a Claw that piece would be solved already.

Cron is also the perfect example of the kind of system I've been using for 20+ years where is still prefer to have an LLM configure it for me! Quick, off the top of your head what's the cron syntax for "run this at 8am and 4pm every day pacific time"?

verdverm 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I took the "running 24/7” to imply less AI writes code once and more to imply AI is available all the time for ad hoc requests. I tried to adjust back to the median with my third question.

I find the idea of programming from my phone unappealing, do you ever put work down? Or do you have to be always on now, being a thought leader / influencer?

simonw 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I do most of my programming from my phone now. I love it. I get to spend more time out in the world and not chained to my laptop. I can work in the garden with the chickens, or take the dog on a walk, or use public transport time productively while going to fun places.

It's actually the writing of content for my blog that chains me to the laptop, because I won't let AI write for me. I do get a lot of drafts and the occasional short post written in Apple Notes though.

polishdude20 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What's your workflow?

verdverm 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Going from ten finger typing to thumb only or voice has never panned out for me. Any tips?

ProgrammerMatt 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I always want to know what the hell it is these people claim to be working on lmao.

But seems like this guy is the real deal based on his post history

verdverm 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Simon has a lot more smaller projects than one big project these days (afaik, so special insights), which are more conducive to this maybe?

I always try to not use my phone when out and about, preferring to chat people up so we don't lose our IRL social skills. They are more interesting than whatever my phone might have to offer me in those moments.

good-idea 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've been thinking about this (dishes vs creative work). I think it's because our high-production culture requires everyone to figure out their own way of providing value - otherwise you'll go hungry.

Getting a little meta here .

If we were to consider this with an economics-type lens, one could say that there is a finite-yet-unbounded field of possibility within which we can stake our ground to provide value. This field is finite in that we (as individuals, groups, or societies) only have so much knowledge and technology with which to explore the field. As we gain more in either category, the field expands.

Maybe an analogy for this would be terraforming an inhospitable planet such as Mars - our ability to extract value from it and support an increasing amount of actors is limited by how fast we can make it habitable.

the efficiency of industrialization results in less space in the field for people to create value. So the boundaries must be expanded. It's a different kind of work, and maybe this is the distinction between toil and creative work.

And we're in a world now where there is decreasing toil-work -- it's a resource that is becoming more and more scarce. So we must find creative, entrepreneurial ways to keep up.

Anyways, back to the kitchen sink -- doing our dishes is simply not as urgent as doing the creative thing that will help you stay afloat. With this anxious pressure in mind it makes sense to me that people reach for using AI to (attempt to) do the latter.

AI is great at toil-work, so we feel that it ought to be good at creative work too. The lines between the two are very blurry, and there is so much hype and things are moving so fast. But I think the ones who do figure out how to grow in this era will be those who learn to tell the distinction between the two, and resist the urge to let an LLM do the creative work for them. The kids in college right now who don't use AI to write for them, but use it to help gather research and so on.

Another planetary example comes to mind -- it's like there's a new Western gold rush frontier - but instead of it being open territory spanning beyind the horizon, it's slowly being revealed as the water recedes, and we are all already crowded at the shore.