| ▲ | raincole 5 hours ago |
| > > The only way to outlaw Meta’s dangerous and egregious behavior is to pass legislation, like the Kids Online Safety Act Really? Even if we ignore all the implication of censorship and surveillance state, lying to the congress is already a crime. It's already regulated. If he can get away with it why another act would be different? |
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| ▲ | blacklion 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Yes, it is what always puzzles me: we have regulations, they don't work because everybody can find loopholes in them, or enforcement is not strict, but lets add more regulations instead of really implementing previous ones. It is everywhere. More and more layers of regulations which don't work, not enforceable or nobody care to enforce them, but lets add more in same vein. |
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| ▲ | mystraline 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It shouldn't surprise you. Once a company starts bribing politicians with campaign funds, they have a foot in the door. Once they have the paid lobbyists, then they present company-written policy documents and laws that just need a sponsor. Those laws are crafted explicitly for specific holes only the company can effectively navigate. But on its face, looks completely fair. Law gets passed, and the law is really a moat 'pulling up the ladder' for any other company trying to encroach on their space. Naturally, its written such a way that will pass basic scrutiny. | | |
| ▲ | blacklion 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It is not only about regulating huge businesses. For example, EU has effective definition of electric bicycle, electric moped and electric motorcycle. It is three different classes of vehicles, with strict technical thresholds for properties. You always can say what you see. These three classes of vehicles require different licenses (no license for bicycle, AM or B for moped and A1/A2/A for motorcycle), different insurance, different equipment (helmet). They can be ridden on different roads (and bicycle roads), etc. Here, in the Netherlands teenagers (their parents) buy "Fat bikes". Thy are effectively electric mopeds (1000W+ of power, mode when you don't need to pedal, etc), but of course it is hidden mode, and "by default" they are limited as electric bicycles. Only saddle is not adjustable, they weight 20+ kg and it is impossible to ride them as bicycles, you will damage your knees very quickly. So, all teenager ride them as if they be bicycles (no helmets, no license plates, no insurance, no nothing, on the bicycle paths), in moped mode: very fast (faster than 30km/h), powerful, etc. Everybody sane hate them. Every city discuss how to ban them completely. Every magistrate want new regulations. But each new definition of "fat bike" is leaky! There is NO any bribing or "sponsors". But everybody wants some new regulations when there are perfectly clear regulations. Problem is, you need to do checks of these bikes. You need confiscate vehicles which violate rules, you need raids. Police don't want to do this. Ok, some Magistrate will come up with definition of "Fat bike" to ban them. What will change? Nothing. Now police has all legislations to regulate this madness. But it don't want to spend resources for this. What new definition of "fat bike" will change? Nothing. |
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| ▲ | pibaker 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Go look at the people behind this "tech oversight" website and behold their long history of partisan campaign work. https://techoversight.org/our-team/ > Sacha is a veteran of political campaigns all over the country and has worked at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, House Majority PAC, and on Capitol Hill. > Kyle is a strategic communicator who has served as a senior advisor to members of Congress, Democratic campaigns, and progressive organizations. > Marjorie is a strategic communicator whose experience spans government, advocacy, and media. She has led high-impact communications campaigns and advised policymakers on key health and tech policy issues, distilling intricate topics into clear, persuasive messaging that resonates with diverse audiences. Notice how NONE of the people in charge have any experience working with child protection, nor do they work in related fields like social work, law, law enforcement or mental health. They are political "communicators" first and foremost. In other words, they are here to push policies and they are NOT coy about it. This is not a project led by people who actually care about "kid safety", whatever that means. This is a barely concealed astroturfing campaign run by professional campaigners trying to turn public sympathy for victims of abuse into support for censorship bills that will do nothing to prevent actual harm and everything |
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| ▲ | ddtaylor 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's paid for by a special interest group, what else do you expect the outcome could be other than legislation? |
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| ▲ | thunfischtoast 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| When was the last time a rich and/or famous person faced actual repercussions for their bad actions? Actions that, would they be comitted by the lower 99,9% of the world, would yield at least a fine that actually hurts, or jail. Serious jail, not "house arrest" in a big mansion. Jail time that actually lasted to the end and was not prematurely lifted after 6 months? When the current systems are failing the solution is not to replace them with another system. |
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| ▲ | dylan604 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Martha Stewart went to jail. Famous parents from the college admission scandal did time. There have been examples, but yeah, it does make obvious the "two tier" system | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | SBF? Epstein? Weinstein? | | | |
| ▲ | marginalia_nu 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They threw Epstein in prison. Maxwell is doing time now as well. Bernie Madoff got 150 years, died in the same prison R Kelly is doing a 31 year stint in. | | |
| ▲ | Larrikin 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Black men are usually punished no matter how much money they have. Rich Women have a lower threshold than rich white men, if their crimes hurt or have the potential to hurt rich people. Holmes was punished for defrauding the investors, not the people who took her fake blood tests. | | |
| ▲ | SpicyLemonZest 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But you haven't engaged with two of the four examples in the comment you're responding to. I don't think developing just-so stories for why some rich and famous people were prosecuted and ignoring others to whom the stories don't apply will be helpful for your understanding. | | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well one of them originally got a year and a half which is barely anything for the crimes. | | |
| ▲ | marginalia_nu 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well at the same time P Diddy barely saw any consequences either. Probably tricky to say much based on such a small sample size, regardless. There aren't that many rich and/or famous people in the first place, and an even smaller portion that engage in some sort of major crimes. |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Holmes was punished for defrauding the investors, not the people who took her fake blood tests. There's more to this than you imply. I'm unfamiliar with the details, so take this comment more as a discussion of a hypothetical (that is phrased as if it was all factual) than as fact. 1. The formal charge was defrauding the investors. But that isn't necessarily the behavior that got her charged. If you're a prosecutor looking to score some political points, you prosecute an outrageous person over a crime you can convict them on, but the crime doesn't have to be outrageous itself. 2. If someone had been harmed by a fake blood test ("the test said no cancer, but there was cancer!"), that would have made it into the prosecution. As you note here, it makes the prosecutor look better and Holmes look worse. 3. But if you don't rely on the results of an experimental blood test and suffer harm, there is no injury to prosecute for. Theoretically people who paid for experimental tests could sue for a refund. 4. Holmes' conduct, restricted only to defrauding investors, was outrageous and easily merited a hefty prison sentence. | |
| ▲ | butlike 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't address Epstein or Madoff in your retort. | | |
| ▲ | c22 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sam Bankman-Fried is probably an even better example. Still, it's shameful how long all these individuals were able to operate large criminal enterprises in brazen defiance of the law without being called out on it. If any of these people were scared enough of consequences to put even a little effort into covering their tracks we may never have become aware of their transgressions. |
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| ▲ | myvoiceismypass 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Martha Stewart went to jail for like a half year for lying during an insider trading investigation, it was a pretty big deal back then. That sort of behavior today would be totally excused by the current grifters in charge, though. |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well, in this case, lying to Congress is a crime, but techoversight is happy to call statements "lies" when there's no chance of upholding a "lying to Congress" charge. So their position that addressing the problem they see requires additional regulation is correct. This is the first example of a "lie" they give: “No one should have to go through the things that your families have suffered and this is why we invest so much and are going to continue doing industry leading efforts to make sure that no one has to go through the types of things that your families have had to suffer,” Zuckerberg said And it's a lie because... > Despite Zuckerberg’s claims during the 2024 US Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Meta’s post-hearing investment in teen safety measures (i.e. Teen Accounts) are a PR stunt. So the complaint is just that Mark Zuckerberg said his company was doing great, industry-leading work, when in techoversight's opinion it was doing bad, shoddy work. There is no lie involved. You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do [efforts]". |
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| ▲ | Dylan16807 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do [efforts]". You think such a weak claim is still a strain? That's the weakest possible factual interpretation. But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". If there was nobody prioritizing teen safety, or if that team had no power while teams targeting teens had power, then his statement was a lie. It's not just an opinion over whether the end result was shoddy. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". You're wrong; one is tautologous and the other is clearly non-factual. More specifically, if you say "that's why we do so much to make sure [that xxx...]", the literal meaning of "so much" is "as much as we do" - the claim can never be false. Meanwhile, "industry leading" is puffery. | | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Being nonspecific is not a tautology. "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Is it still puffery when there are objective measurements and you're not anywhere near leader? Well when you're testifying to congress and you puff that hard I think you should be punished regardless of definitions. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes an hour ago | parent [-] | | > "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie. Seriously, "so much" means nothing other than "that amount, whatever it might be". That is the meaning of "so" - it refers to the context. You can wish as hard as you want, but you won't change the meaning of common English words. Compare Merriam-Webster's gloss for so much: > by the amount indicated or suggested https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much | | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It refers to context. That's not the same as meaning nothing or being a tautology. In context, it can be a lie. He indicated an amount that was not just "insert any number". |
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| ▲ | dfxm12 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This line of reasoning doesn't follow. The "dangerous and egregious behavior" being referred to here is about Meta's behavior relating to children, not lying to congress. Prosecuting Zuckerberg for perjury will likely have no effect on Meta's day to day business operations (including its behavior related to children). |