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thaumasiotes 5 hours ago

Well, in this case, lying to Congress is a crime, but techoversight is happy to call statements "lies" when there's no chance of upholding a "lying to Congress" charge. So their position that addressing the problem they see requires additional regulation is correct.

This is the first example of a "lie" they give:

“No one should have to go through the things that your families have suffered and this is why we invest so much and are going to continue doing industry leading efforts to make sure that no one has to go through the types of things that your families have had to suffer,” Zuckerberg said

And it's a lie because...

> Despite Zuckerberg’s claims during the 2024 US Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Meta’s post-hearing investment in teen safety measures (i.e. Teen Accounts) are a PR stunt.

So the complaint is just that Mark Zuckerberg said his company was doing great, industry-leading work, when in techoversight's opinion it was doing bad, shoddy work. There is no lie involved. You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do [efforts]".

Dylan16807 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> You would have to really strain even to call Zuckerberg's statement a statement of fact, and the factual elements are just "we invest [an amount]" and "we do [efforts]".

You think such a weak claim is still a strain? That's the weakest possible factual interpretation.

But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading". If there was nobody prioritizing teen safety, or if that team had no power while teams targeting teens had power, then his statement was a lie. It's not just an opinion over whether the end result was shoddy.

thaumasiotes 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> But I don't think we should ignore "so much [...] to make sure" or "industry leading".

You're wrong; one is tautologous and the other is clearly non-factual.

More specifically, if you say "that's why we do so much to make sure [that xxx...]", the literal meaning of "so much" is "as much as we do" - the claim can never be false.

Meanwhile, "industry leading" is puffery.

Dylan16807 an hour ago | parent [-]

Being nonspecific is not a tautology. "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie.

Is it still puffery when there are objective measurements and you're not anywhere near leader? Well when you're testifying to congress and you puff that hard I think you should be punished regardless of definitions.

thaumasiotes an hour ago | parent [-]

> "so much" has a minimum to not be a lie.

Seriously, "so much" means nothing other than "that amount, whatever it might be". That is the meaning of "so" - it refers to the context. You can wish as hard as you want, but you won't change the meaning of common English words.

Compare Merriam-Webster's gloss for so much:

> by the amount indicated or suggested

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/so%20much

Dylan16807 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

It refers to context. That's not the same as meaning nothing or being a tautology. In context, it can be a lie.

He indicated an amount that was not just "insert any number".