| Part of the economic distortion, and difficulty in making these comparisons, is that a 1970 Ford F-100 and 2025 Ford F-150 are pretty radically different. Both by design, government mandate, and customer demands. 2 door single row -> 4 door two rows drum brakes -> anti-lock disc brakes lap belts only -> shoulder belts with airbags, normally aspirated V-8, no catalytic converter -> twin turbo v6 and dual catalytic converter manual transmission -> 10 speed automatic If you wanted to make a Ford F-100 today, without the modern safety, emissions, fuel efficiency, and comforts, you could probably do it for less than $17,000, which is what $2,000 adjusted for inflation is. |
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| ▲ | majormajor 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And a computer in 1970 would've been way more expensive and far crappier than a hundred dollar Android tablet today. It's not exactly in dispute that there has been technological development between 1970 and 2025. But it's also not the central issue. In America the personal vehicle is a necessity in the vast majority of the country, and it's relatively more expensive today. As are many other necessities. (If you want we can quibble further and say a 17k used Rav 4 or Tacoma would be more reliable than a 1970 F-100 anyway blah blah blah blah the increased lifespan and availability of used cars causes new cars to have to go more upmarket blah blah blah... but the hedonic treadmill is also real and if you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute in the 70s, but today have a 10 year old car and an apartment with a 70min commute, you're not gonna feel good.) | | |
| ▲ | WillPostForFood 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes I agree they are MUCH more expensive relatively. But they are more expensive entirely by choice, not because of inflation or stagnant wages. People want better cars, and that costs more. The government demands lower emissions, that costs more. Safety costs more. There is no world where you get all that for the same percentage of income. you would've been living it up with a new car and a nice home with a 30min commute And you be killed or paralyzed after a fender bender. Death rate per 100,000,000 miles dropped from 5 in 1970 to 1.4 in 2023. | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > People want better cars, and that costs more. The government demands lower emissions, that costs more. Safety costs more. There is no world where you get all that for the same percentage of income. Hell, we did it with computers. Let's figure out how to do it in more places. Isn't that supposed to be the main job of the economy? Increase productivity? So that we all get more for less? Make the pie bigger, don't just make your own slice bigger? If there's "no world" where all that can happen, most of the "taxes will hurt innovation, actually" arguments fall EXTREMELY hollow. Let's connect a few dots: - Streets are in disrepair - You can't afford the lifestyle you used to (by "choice") - It's far harder for people, especially the young, to find a job (many end up hiding on disability and such that didn't exist much several decades ago in the first place) - The wealthy have more money, and proportionally more money, than any time in the last century Maybe instead of choosing the more expensive car we should start choosing to put some of that money to use repairing our basic infrastructure and trying to increase whole-society productive output instead of bottom-line ROI. | | |
| ▲ | WillPostForFood 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It is happening with cars too, it just that features are being added even faster than the price can come down. If you wanted Ford F-150 in 1970, you could do most of it, but it would have been a multi-million dollar car. You get all that for 50k. You are getting a lot more per dollar. This reminds me the housing discussing - a part of the affordability problem is that houses have gotten much bigger. And have air conditioning. And have to comply with strict building codes. And have to be fire safe. |
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| ▲ | thayne 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > There is no world where you get all that for the same percentage of income. There is if we are comparing 2026 to the 70s. Technology has increased productivity overall. If those gains were distributed more evenly, it is more likely that the cost of, say a car, would be similar to the same percentage of income. |
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| ▲ | SpicyLemonZest 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think this is an example of the hedonic treadmill. People who believe that a new 2026 Tacoma is the hedonic equivalent of a new 1970 F-100 are simply wrong, in the same way that people who imagine taking all the flights they take today with the level of service provided on 1970s passenger planes are wrong. The extreme increase in reliability and build quality has shifted the dynamics of the car market, with essentially all new vehicle sales pushed upscale as budget-conscious buyers have no reason to buy new with even an infinite time horizon. My $15k used car with 100k miles on it is just as reliable, just as stylish, and sparks just as much joy in me as the new cars my grandparents could have bought in 1970. |
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| ▲ | Gigachad 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are more vehicles in the US than the F150 right? in Australia this would be seen as an absurdly over the top vehicle for almost all contractors and construction workers. Some amount of this issue must be marketing and propaganda making people buy massively over spec vehicles than their actual needs require. Most of these workers could get by with basically any car but get marketed and peer pressured in to spending $50,000 on the biggest one. | | |
| ▲ | WillPostForFood 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, but there are no ~17k pickups in the US, which would be the inflation adjusted price of the F-100. The cheapest truck is the Maverick which starts at 28k. | |
| ▲ | esseph 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > $50,000 on the biggest one You can easily run into trucks in the $120,000-$150,000 range in the car lots now. |
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| ▲ | bandrami 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's one of the problems with saying healthcare prices have "gone up". An x-ray in 1976 cost like $100 in 1976 dollars and one today costs like $100 in 2026 dollars, so it's significantly cheaper. But you couldn't get an MRI for any price in 1976 and you can get one in 2026 for $800, so the cost of "imaging" has gone up notionally. | |
| ▲ | moneycantbuy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not entirely, the problems are also that wages haven't kept up with inflation; $9,000 salary in 1970 would be $75,000 today, and the automakers realized they make more profit in financing than on the vehicle itself, optimizing the maximum they can squeeze someone who needs a vehicle, hence 96 months for an auto loan. | | |
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| ▲ | retrac 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The wage gap between black and white Americans is nearly the same today as in 1970. | |
| ▲ | GibbonBreath 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you're going to reply to people can you actually reply to then instead of editing your comment? You probably shouldn't reply to people who tell you to kill yourself anyway but the fact that comment is (presumably) deleted illustrates the kind of confusion this causes. | |
| ▲ | majormajor 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The 80s-and-on story of America is not a story of women and minorities getting on more solid economic footing at the cost of some additional costs for white male Americans. Almost everybody is worse off - higher debt, less property ownership among the youth, etc. I wouldn't agree with a position of "white people aren't going to stop being racist, just separate everyone and let them be" (we could call this the Clarence Thomas position, as Corey Robin has written about[0]). But it's wildly misleading to say that the slippage of the American economy is because of less overt discrimination. It's universal. The economy itself is broken compared to how it used to be. (Personally, I'd point at the oligarch-fighting "soak the rich" taxes passed in the early 20th century as a key point here.) [0] https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627793834/theenigmaofclar... | |
| ▲ | Affric 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So your thesis is that the segregationists were right and there’s a causal link between the decline in conditions for white American workers and the success of the civil rights movement? Why must anyone be content to be poor and equal to only the poor? | |
| ▲ | eli_gottlieb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Yet we do not pay poll taxes today. We are not getting lynched in the streets. We are not being directly racially discriminated from employment. No thanks to the present government, who post about deporting slightly less than 1/3 the US population. | |
| ▲ | dottjt 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not to justify this, but is this possibly the reason why those opportunities existed? | |
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