There are many countries where debit cards are the norm and credit cards are extremely rare. In France, people are so afraid of consumer credit that cards are renamed ‘deferred debit cards’ rather than credit cards, otherwise people do not want them.

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barbazoo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Growing up in the EU, living in North America now, it's mind blowing to me how much credit these companies are making available to me. Not that I ever would outside of an actual emergency but I can see how it's tempting to someone who didn't grow up in a financial risk averse society.

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consp 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is also a major difference as I understand it. They need to be resolved at the end of a certain period. There is a legal difference from Credit cards as in there is no continual liability and thus no continued line of credit. Getting a true credit card is also a lot harder here (not France) than a deferred payment card (usually 1 month) and has stricter credit checks.

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phil21 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

These are historically called “charge cards” in the US and are common for corporations who give employees “credit cards” for travel and the like.

American Express is big in this market - what looks like a normal Amex Business Platinum card can very well be a charge card that needs to be paid in full at the due date every month.

There are minor differences but the big one is no carried balance between months is allowed. Payment in full due each month.

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KellyCriterion 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Visa and MC have basicly all of these configurations, depending on country & legislation: - Direct Debit - Deffered Debit - Rolling Credit - Installment Credit

And if you are a $MegaBigCorp customer of them, you can customize even more.

	▲	em-bee 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		indeed. my credit card requires me to preload money from my bank account. it's like there is a second account that keeps a balance that i can spend using the credit card. whenever i use it, the balance is updated. how the credit is paid off i don't know. it could be either right away, or the amount is just hidden by my bank until it is time to pay off at the end of the month. either way, the credit limit is zero. so i can never spend more than i put in first. (though this may be based on how much i spend or be a configurable value.)

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Beretta_Vexee 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's more taboo to talk about revolving credit card than crack addiction for a french. I don't know a bank that offer them, even the shady online bank.

	▲	cferry an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Historically, these have been issued by "consumer credit" specialized banks like Sofinco; and retail chains ("carte Aurore"); traditional banks would seldom advertise them, if offered at all. Things have been changing a bit in recent years. Since the "debit" and "credit" nature of the card is now written on them, French folks have started to request "credit" ones for travelling (to rent a car for instance). My understanding is that for car rental purposes, anything using Visa/MC (and not a national debit network like Visa Debit in the US) will work, it doesn't actually need to be backed by a revolving credit. At a US gas pump, a Frenchie needs to select "credit" even though the card has "debit" written on it. Still, should the clerk refuse the card because it reads "debit" without running it... better have this "credit"-labeled one.
	▲	Invictus0 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Too bad that doesn't extend to their government, which seems to have no problem spending their credit down to the wire...

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carlosjobim 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Debit cards come with the same fraud protection as credit cards do, which is the most important benefit of Visa/MasterCard.

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alistairSH 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Just by their nature, that is inherently untrue.

If your CC is stolen, you are not out all the cash in your account until the dispute is resolved.

If your debit card is stolen, you lose that cash, making it more difficult to pay whatever other obligations you have that period.

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carlosjobim 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If your debit card is stolen, your bank has to return all money that was used or withdrawn to you. Since it is unauthorized use of your funds. Same for credit cards of course. Such money is returned swiftly.

But the more concerning fraud is when you purchase something and don't receive what you should have received from the merchant. Whether it is due to outright fraud or not. In these cases you will also have your money reimbursed by your credit or debit card.

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aydyn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> If your debit card is stolen, your bank has to return all money that was used or withdrawn to you. Since it is unauthorized use of your funds. Same for credit cards of course. Such money is returned swiftly.

This may be what the letter of the law says but this isn't reality. Using debit puts you at greater financial risk.

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xquce an hour ago | parent [-]

“Using debit puts you at a greater financial risk.”

What how? Surely the US populations credit card debt dorf even the global populations debit card fraud numbers. So while my whole family in a combined 200 years of adulthood have indeed lost some 1000 euro total in fraud, it's not thing compared to the average Americans credit card bills.

I'd rather risk the street criminals with my debit than the suit wearing ones with their credit.

	▲	sethhochberg an hour ago \| parent [-]
		My debit card is a direct line to my primary bank account. If something goes wrong there and an attacker gains access, my cash is simply gone. Yes, the bank will perform an investigation and yes they may issue some provisional credits as a bridge, but there's a window of time between the theft and that investigation concluding where my actual cash is not in my account. With a credit card, if the card is compromised, its not my money being stolen - its the card issuer's money from my line of credit, and they were planning on settling up with me when my monthly statement closes. I still have to launch a fraud case with the issuer, but critically, _all of my money is still in my bank account_ and I can continue to pay my other bills and obligations as normal. I think its reasonable to consider giving up that buffer to be additional risk for the debit card approach, setting aside any other advantages or disadvantages between the two.

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alistairSH an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's what I said... but, that takes time, time for which you don't have access to that cash.

Just a quick Google... Wells Fargo's policy is 10 days to either case resolution OR provisional credit. I assume that's typical for American banks. For somebody living paycheck to paycheck, 10 days is a long time to go without access to what little cash they might have.

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phoronixrly an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You guys use the debit card linked to your primary bank account??? There's been virtual cards for online shopping for 10+ years now. They're meant to be linked to an empty or low amount bank account. Now with Revolut you can schedule auto top-up to keep this low amount up to date.

Not to mention the per-purchase (online/in-person) limits, mandatory PIN entry, and daily maximums...

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gpderetta 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In UK, consumer protection for Credit Cards is guaranteed by law (Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act), but not for Debit Cards (that's contractual).

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rcbdev 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The UK is often completely out of step with consumer protections in the EU.

	▲	alibarber an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Is it? Can’t say I’ve really noticed it. In fact just today I read this article in my EU country that sounds almost identical to what this comment describes: https://yle.fi/a/74-20209419 “ If, for example, the payment was made by credit card and the product has not been delivered, the consumer can contact their credit card company directly and request a refund. Credit card firms can usually refund the money quickly, Beurling-Pomoell noted, whereas consumers who paid by debit card must try to claim their money back from the bankruptcy estate. "Unfortunately, [reclaiming money from a bankruptcy estate] is usually a very long and difficult process. Consumers are generally in a relatively weak position when a company goes bankrupt," he said. Beurling-Pomoell added that consumers should always consider using a credit card when purchasing a product that they do not immediately receive.”
	▲	lostlogin 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		If a pan European system takes off, it’ll be interesting to see what happens with the UK. Their self-harming has been impressive.

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victorbjorklund 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not true. At least not in Sweden. There are different laws from credit cards and debit cards.

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aspbee555 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

with a debit card your cash is gone from your bank account in that moment, even if you get it back later (hopefully). With a credit card they are not able to drain your bank account, the risks are entirely on the cc company and they will be significantly more motivated to get that back than a bank would. it's entirely their problem, not yours

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phil21 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Others have said it but I will pile on as this is dangerous misinformation.

It’s sort of true in a legal sense, but not a practical one. If you find yourself in a dispute (even outright fraud sometimes) you might end up stuck for weeks or months with your disputed funds frozen.

If you are a highly paid software engineer with considerable assets and transaction volume at your bank it’s likely you will never experience hardship with disputing a transaction. If you are someone scraping by and that $200 depends on you paying rent on time that month you will find your experience to perhaps be different.

I’ve helped friends and family with such disputes in the past. Credit cards even when it “goes wrong” are much better to deal with. Your credit limit being reduced a bit is immaterial to your life most of the time. Having your own money tied up during an investigation that demands more and more paperwork like police reports etc. can be incredibly damaging and if nothing else quite stressful. The experience some of my friends had in these matters is nothing like I had when I had my wallet stolen and I no longer recommend anyone use debit if they can avoid it.

Heck, I had a friend who doesn’t even have a passport dispute an ATM transaction in a country he never visited. The bank initially denied it and it took weeks to eventually get it resolved in his favor.

In the end having the banks money tied up vs your own money at risk is always better if you can handle the responsibility of a credit card.