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ryandrake 3 hours ago

If the US wants to increase its population, maybe it should stop sending masked agents out to kick in doors, directly reducing the population.

koolba 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The US has endless backlog of people waiting in line to legally enter the country. It doesn’t need to keep any illegal aliens to meet its immigration goals.

fooker 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This logic would fly a couple of years ago.

Since then, we have seen indiscriminate violence against people and families following the rules.

And a bizzare hate campaign against H1B.

And court judgements explicitly enabling masked government agents to target someone solely on the basis of skin color.

koolba 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Since then, we have seen indiscriminate violence against people and families following the rules.

I'm not aware of any such thing, especially anything "indiscriminate". For sure there are causalities when protests go from speech to violence or directly interfere with the ability of law enforcement to enforce the law. But your framing makes it sound like roving bands of beat down squads.

> And a bizzare hate campaign against H1B.

There's nothing bizarre about workers being angry at a system that is being abused to drive down wages. The reality is that there are segments of workforce in the USA that will only hire H1Bs workers because they know they can treat them illegally. This happens all over the place but is particularly prevalent at larger orgs (both in tech and finance). The behavior is implicitly authorized by the companies as they outsource the "being the jerk" to those managers.

The non-H1B workers rightfully feel angered by this because it directly lowers their wages. It's like scabs flooding a union shop. Only worse as the scabs are scared of not only losing their jobs, but their visas.

> And court judgements explicitly enabling masked government agents to target someone solely on the basis of skin color.

If there was not a concerted effort to interfere with law enforcement or dox the people that work at those places, the masks would not be necessary.

vel0city 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I'm not aware of any such thing, especially anything "indiscriminate"

Ok, let me make you aware of it and then you'll be unable to continue to use this excuse.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/26871634-19-ts-of-02...

> Detention without lawful authority is not just a technical defect, it is a constitutional injury that unfairly falls on the heads of those who have done nothing wrong to justify it. The individuals affected are people. The overwhelming majority of the hundreds seen by this Court have been found to be lawfully present as of now in the country.

Quit burying your head in the sand of what is happening around you. I urge you to actually read the reality in the court records of what is actually happening.

> That does not end the Court’s concerns, however. Attached to this order is an appendix that identifies 96 court orders that ICE has violated in 74 cases. The extent of ICE’s noncompliance is almost certainly substantially understated. This list is confined to orders issued since January 1, 2026, and the list was hurriedly compiled by extraordinarily busy judges. Undoubtedly, mistakes were made, and orders that should have appeared on this list were omitted. This list should give pause to anyone—no matter his or her political beliefs—who cares about the rule of law. ICE has likely violated more court orders in January 2026 than some federal agencies have violated in their entire existence.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mnd.230...

Hizonner 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I'm not aware of any such thing, especially anything "indiscriminate".

You are wilfully unaware.

> For sure there are causalities when protests go from speech to violence or directly interfere with the ability of law enforcement to enforce the law.

The protests and other resistance to the crackdowns have been amazingly disciplined in maintaining nonviolence. Shockingly good at it.

Almost all of the violence that's actually happened has been both started and finished by ICE/CBP/etc.

Not to mention the fact that the structure of the operations, and the organizational culture in which they are conducted, are obviously intended, at a command level, to create conditions for violence on both (all?) sides. And, yes, Those In Charge are absolutely responsible for that.

When Noem, Bondi, Homan, Miller, Trump, and friends talk about "violent riots", "domestic terrorism", "ramming agents with cars", or whatever, they are lying. It's not a difference of interpretation. They are intentionally lying (except maybe Trump, who probably doesn't have enough of a sense of reality to be strictly lying). They have lots of allies who systematically spread their lies and add more. Don't believe anything they say unless you have personally seen and authenticated video. You have to authenticate it, because one of their favorite tricks is to use video of things that happened years ago, sometimes in other countries, and claim it's what their agents are reacting to. AI video isn't quite good enough yet, but they'll use that where they can. And of course they're also all about selective editing. And after all that they still ask you to ignore the evidence of your own eyes.

If you are failing to be skeptical of notorious baldfaced liars, that's motivated ignorance on your part.

> But your framing makes it sound like roving bands of beat down squads.

In Minneapolis, yes. But those squads are mostly aimed at intimidating anybody resisting the agenda, not at actual potential deportees.

The more on-topic problem is revoking every completely legal status in sight, and then acting as though the people whose status got revoked had done something wrong.

> If there was not a concerted effort to interfere with law enforcement or dox the people that work at those places, the masks would not be necessary.

You know, normal cops frequently deal with actual violent criminals who may be inclined to violent vengeance. But they don't wear masks.

ICE agents are just going to have to deal with the fact that, so long as they keep doing what they're doing, decent people who find out who they are are going to shun them. They might even get heckled on the streets. Comes with the territory. Does not justify trying to conceal your identity.

AdamN 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wouldn't it be simplest to just legalize the people who are here and at the same time also open up immigrant visas too?

throw1111221 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This already happened in 1986.

"The Immigration Reform and Control Act legalized most undocumented immigrants who had arrived in the country prior to January 1, 1982. The act altered U.S. immigration law by making it illegal to knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and establishing financial and other penalties for companies that employed illegal immigrants."

"By splitting the H-2 visa category created by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, the 1986 law created the H-2A visa and H-2B visa categories, for temporary agricultural and non-agricultural workers, respectively."

"Despite the passage of the act, the population of undocumented immigrants rose from 5 million in 1986 to 11.1 million in 2013."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

a_tartaruga 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Wouldn't it be simplest to just legalize the people who are here

I recently went down this rabbit hole a bit thinking this was the obvious solution and was surprised to learn that the Reagan administration legalized all illegal immigrants in the USA in 1986: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control....

State control over employment and borders in the US is just too weak to prevent people coming over and so 30 years later this leads right back to the initial state.

koolba 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Wouldn't it be simplest to just legalize the people who are here and at the same time also open up immigrant visas too?

Any form of amnesty encourages the same behavior in the future.

How many and what kind of immigrant visas is an open question. There's definitely a need for more workers in some fields. Healthcare in particular could be well served by importing (even more) doctors from around the world.

What's not up for debate is whether we should be enforcing our immigration laws. If people different laws enforced, then get the laws changed. There's no unfairness to the current laws. And flooding the country with cheap labor hurts the lowest tiers of the populace the most.

rendang 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It creates a huge moral hazard to reward those who illegally entered/overstayed visas

hobs 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The vast majority taken up in these dragnets are legal residents of the united states.

The attorney representing ICE to the courts in MN admitted it directly, admitted that ICE does not believe it needs to honor orders of the federal court system, and that they do not comply with orders to release legal residents of the united states.

You should educate yourself. Here's commentary that directly references the lawyer's responses and judge's commentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6o-_2thaI8

rjbwork 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The US doesn't want indiscriminate population growth. It wants white people that were born here to reproduce more.

tastyface 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

"The US" as a whole definitely does not want that, just the deeply unpopular white nationalists who have their hands on the levers of power at the moment.

As an aside, it's hilarious that they try to brand themselves as "Heritage Americans" since "Native American" is already taken.

2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
fragmede 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does it? It sure costs a whole helluava lot. I mean, there's tax credits and things, but it's not at all cheap!

bradlys 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think capitalists just want cheap labor. The US itself doesn’t have a unified position on population. Plenty of people want a population decrease because they feel everything is overcrowded.

rjbwork 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well, when I say "US" I mean the current administration and the people that have power within it. Maybe that's not their actual intention or desire, but that is the story their policies and actions are telling.

myth_drannon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's interesting how the sides flipped. Left was strongly anti-immigration because it saw it as a tool of capitalism to drive down wages and just general abuse of working-class rights. Now Left is pro-immigration, and the right is against for the same reason the Left was. When did this change happen?

jpadkins 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Globalists have been taking over liberal institutions since the 90s (they have control of the DNC for longer). Media, academia, education are aligned with the globalist agenda. And the left dare not speak out against it, or they get mobbed.

rjbwork 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm on the left and am anti-immigration. Always have been. I think pulling the cream of the crop is objectively good for the country, but bad for the places they come from. Liberal low skilled immigration is just bad for everyone except the handful of people that actually employ them.

bradlys 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When the “left” started becoming more about social wokeist policies than about economics and fiscal policy.

I think the reason the left became this way is due to neoliberals trying to fracture the left by getting center left people all concerned about social issues. Secondly, the left became completely disjointed and hopeless many years ago. Once the capitalists had completely thwarted the movements and fucked with the parties, the left collectively realized they really couldn’t do anything against the economic engine that was running against them. So they were left with virtue signaling, woke shit, and so on as a means of trying to get some kind of change.

The left of today is very soft and unwilling to engage in violence. At least in the US. I think abroad there are other movements that are willing to throw down and actually suffer for their principles. Americans aren’t and I don’t think we’ve ever had a real leftist movement here anyway. People will think Bernie 2016 is probably the closest thing we’ve had in 50 years and he’s pretty mild…

tensor 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's amusing. The left is always accused of "woke" but the ones constantly crying about it are those on the right. The right will even vote against their own economic interests to "stick it to the woke."

Seems to me we need to fix the narrative here, the right are woke obsessed while the left would rather vote on economic principles like reducing healthcare costs and improving jobs (not just availability but also pay and quality).