...which has been known for at least a century

RRWagner 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here is an important difference. A century ago, the predator (seller) and the prey (buyer) were on equal evolutionary terms. Each generation of humans on either side of the transaction came into the world, learned to convince, learned to resist, then passed, and some balance was maintained. In this century, corporations and algorithms don't die, but the targets do. This means that the non-human seller is continuously, even immortally, learning, adapting and perfecting how to manipulate. The target, be it adult, adolescent, or child, is, and will be ever increasingly, at a severe disadvantage.

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SR2Z 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Right, because we know that parents never pass down useful skills or life tips to their children, like skepticism of propaganda and advertising, and instead send their children into the world like sheep into a lion's den.

There might come a day when advertising is too flawless for a human mind to resist it, but we're not there yet.

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somenameforme 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Most of everybody thinks their behaviors and decisions are not meaningfully influenced by advertising. Companies spend literally trillions of dollars running ads. One side is right, one side is wrong.

And advertising largely relies on this ignorance of its effects, or otherwise most of everybody would go to much greater lengths to limit their exposures to such, and governments would be more inclined to regulate the ad industry as a goal in and of itself.

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cm2012 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands. None of them rely on weird ad magic to persuade people secretly - just showing off different aspects of the product or service.

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autoexec 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it".

This is such a naive view of advertising that if you're really this unaware of how manipulative ads are, you can't possibly have defenses against them. You should seriously spend some time looking into the secret magic of dark psychology they use to manipulate people because while knowing about their tactics won't make you immune to them, it really can help to be aware of how they work and to train yourself to recognize when they're being used against you.

	▲	bryan_w an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I don't know, I just went to find an ad in my feed and the first one was for a house plant that was easy to take care of. I'm not saying I'm the smartest cookie in the shed, but I didn't detect any manipulation. Seems like it was a person who just wanted me to know about their product. Let me know what I'm missing.

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anonymars 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Um, off the top of my head:

"You'll be happier if you purchase this thing"

"You're not good enough as you are now, but you will be if you purchase this thing"

"Other people you admire or respect have purchased this thing, and if you do too you'll be more like them"

"Other people will like you more if you purchase this thing"

"You'll be more attractive if you purchase this thing"

"This thing will be worth more in the future so if you purchase this thing it will make you money"

"This is your only chance to purchase this thing, so if you don't it now you'll miss out on this price"

I don't think any of them has to do with how awesome "the thing" itself is. Obviously there's more to, say, an expensive watch, than its ability to tell time

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cm2012 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The only products that sell this in advertising actually provide those brand features. Essentially people pay money to increase their perceived status.

Like, if you sell a luxury handbag. When people buy it, they know 70% of the value comes from the advertising saying "this is a high value product" as a status signal. I think that's really dumb, but that's what people want.

It also existed a long time before ads itself did.

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Dylan16807 an hour ago | parent [-]

So you've never seen like, a beer ad that promises status and attractiveness?

	▲	cm2012 20 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Beer/liquor is in the same category of status good. People pay a lot to show the brand.

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freejazz an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Advertising is just companies saying "This is what you can purchase from me - it's awesome - please consider purchasing it". I have managed hundreds of millions in ad spend for major brands

Oh, okay. Well if you say so.

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wat10000 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can't remember ever seeing an ad that was just showing off different aspects of the product or service, outside of things like Craigslist.

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coryrc 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

USA here: our schools brainwash children to remove that skepticism. It makes them easier to control and order is very important to the kind of person who becomes a teacher.

Seattle area, they're brainwashing my children to celebrate the "seahawks" team. They came home yesterday being excited that team won the superbowl. I ask "why do you care? You don't like to watch football, none of your friends like to play it". Hard to influence when the kid is there 6.5 hours every day.

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linkregister an hour ago | parent | next [-]

My child's San Francisco Bay Area school has taught media literacy / skepticism every year since 3rd grade. Curricula are determined by the teacher, but N=1 is sufficient for a counterexample for a broad country-wide generalization.

Celebrating a local sports win is about as apolitical and low-harm as possible when it comes to promoting a shared cultural bond for a community.

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sumtimes89 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Former USA teacher here: I assure you that the 17.5 hours parents have with kids are much more influential. It's likely that a lot of the students were really excited that their home team won and the teachers leaned into that excitement.

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irishcoffee an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

My dad was a lot like you. He would shit on things I was excited about that he didn’t like.

We haven’t talked in years.

	▲	an hour ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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jayd16 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What if I told you younger sales people were trained by more experienced sales people and its not a new thing.

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thrwaway55 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ah yes because trade secrets were never a thing at any of these companies. The companies always shut down when it's founding members died wiping out all the knowledge it had built up.

That is to say organizations have always had this edge on individuals.

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daveguy 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And only recently could be optimized in real time, individually, for each target. I remember when there was a big moral scare about "subliminal advertising". People were appalled that an ad on TV could manipulate you without your awareness. That is 100% the business model of modern social media advertising.

It's not embedded in a specific ad, but the entire operation of the promotion algorithms.