So Wero is not a credit card, but something more like Venmo? How is it supposed to replace Visa and Mastercard?

hirako2000 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The concept of a physical card is obsolete. That North Americans and western Europeans for a good part still use them is just stickiness of the infrastructure, and habits.

Developing countries have mostly leapfrogged to total contactless payments.

In South Aast Asia, you typically scan a QR code and approve a payment from your own phone. Far less fraud as a result. Nobody is able to touch your card, you don't have one.

Europe likely identified they better make the jump.

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aveao 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can assure you that south east asians also still have cards, despite not making most of their payments with it. Not all ATMs support withdrawing with just a QR code from all banks, for one.

There are benefits to non-QR based payment systems, such as not wanting to pull out your phone, open an app, scan a QR and approve to make a payment that takes me 2 seconds with regular contactless payments.

Physical cards are also a nice fallback to have in cases of running out of battery, theft, etc.

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SpicyLemonZest 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't really understand why this is better than tap and pay with a card. Why would I want a single point of failure for both my communications and my ability to make payments?

	▲	direwolf20 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Because your bank doesn't want the hassle of mailing cards. It's another reduction in quality for profit.

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ginko 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Qr apps just sound cumbersome compared to contactless tap to pay.

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carlosjobim 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Far less fraud as a result.

Who returns your money to you if you purchased something on mail order with this, and it turned out to be fraud?

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KaiserPro 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Venmo isn't needed, because bank transfers are free and "real time" as in <60s.

even better, its not public.

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Beretta_Vexee 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wero is just one of many systems available that allow individuals to make transfers easily and almost instantly. There is also Bizum in Iberia and Blik in Poland. These instant phone-to-phone transfers are very popular, especially among young people who rarely use cash. Wero itself was launched by large banking networks because they had no solution to compete with neo-banks such as Lydia, which was a pioneer in this type of service. France has its own payment network, Carte Bleue, which dates back to when the very first smart cards were introduced, but it is not European. The real problem is therefore not a lack of projects, banks or services, but a lack of interoperability, too many players and geographical fragmentation. Europe is not fast, but it has worked wonders with SEPA transfers. It needs to put in place a clear timetable imposing the interoperability of these services. The absence of plastic cards is absolutely not a problem, just look at WeChat, Alipay, etc.

	▲	tlogan an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I think the misunderstanding is that when I say “credit card,” I do not mean a physical card. I have not used a physical card in years. In the US, when people hear Mastercard or Visa, they usually associate that with a credit card (virtual or physical), meaning the money is not taken directly from your bank account. You pay the balance later, which gives you credit and strong dispute protections. Debit or ATM cards are different. They pull money directly from your account and can exist independently of Visa and Mastercard. For example, some credit unions still issue ATM only debit cards that are not part of the Visa or Mastercard networks.

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prmoustache 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Easy when shops start supporting them.

I've paid numerous time using the swiss counterpart, Twint, in small shops. For some like the farm I used to buy vegetables to it was their only supported payment besides cash because they deemed the card systems too expensive.

The same way chinese tourists can already pay with alipay in many retatail outlets in europe, you can already pay with such european systems on Aliexpress. More are probably comming.

	▲	Curiositiy 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Annecdata. Not reliably feasible.

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bux93 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's for online payments only. You click on the wero button on a website/app, if on mobile takes you to your banking app (on desktop, you scan a QR code), you do MFA on your banking app and confirm, and the payment is done.

Wero are not in the business of issuing cards, though obviously they could get into that business - just like UnionPay did in China. I suspect there would be a lot of inertia there, as card payment fees are capped in Europe anyway.

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prmoustache 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Cards are also online payment. You can already pay with such systems in some physical shops and restaurants, alongside google/apple/alipay.

	▲	mathis 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		But cards are offline from the perspective of the consumer. Sometimes even on the merchant side of things. Not that it is an important distinction nowadays--but I have definitely tried to pay with a merchant's own app-based payment solution that refused to load due to a bad cellular connection. I haven't looked into how Wero will handle this.

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4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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claudex 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wero bought Payconiq which allow to pay at the physical terminal with a QR code to scan with your phone. So, they can cover the physical payment without having to issue cards.

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Rygian 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

By letting merchants receive payments from customers without going through Visa and Mastercard?

Granted, the FAQ entry is rather light in details:

https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/39413057671...

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Havoc 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> So Wero is not a credit card

Neither are visa/MC for the most part. Mostly debit. ;) this isn’t really about the card anyway but the network behind it.

This is likely to be similar to the existing European payment systems just wider in scope. There are a bunch already it’s just fragmented and country specific. Sepa wero ideal girocard crates bancaires

	▲	tlogan an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I have always wondered what kind of shenanigans Mastercard or Visa did to convince so many banks to use their networks for debit cards. When did banks actually make that switch? It must be relatively recent, because I remember not that long ago my credit union ATM card was not part of Mastercard. Now I have a new one and it suddenly has a Mastercard logo.