| The problem with XMPP is that it's a suite of RFCs. It's like describing DNS, which is a conglomerate of RFCs so complex that it's unlikely to be implemented correctly and completely. XMPP is a design fail in that regard, because if you have to tell your chat contacts to download a different client that fulfills OMEMO or XEP-whatever specs, then yeah, ain't gonna happen for most people. (I am still a proponent of XMPP, but the working groups need to get their shit together to unify protocol support across clients) |
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| ▲ | worble 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Is there a recommended or "blessed" server and client combo for someone who just wants to migrate their friends off discord? The main site https://xmpp.org/software/ lists lots of different options but I have no idea what core/advanced means and comparing all of these would take ages. | | |
| ▲ | opan 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >Is there a recommended or "blessed" server and client Not sure about servers, but for clients there's Gajim, Dino, and Conversations. Not much else is super relevant these days. Profanity exists but is significantly worse than irssi or weechat despite looking superficially similar. Kaidan is a KDE/Qt alternative to Gajim but I'm not sure if it's usable yet. It may be worth switching when it's fleshed out to escape the bugs and slowness of the GTK-based clients. | |
| ▲ | nicoco 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The targeted audience of this website is, for now, developers. Communicating is hard. https://joinjabber.org/ is/was an attempt at something more user-focused. It is not linked to the XMPP Software Foundation. BTW, joining the XSF and participating in discussion around protocol evolution, communication strategy and these sort of things is free, and only requires asking for write permission on the XSF wiki to add an application page. Everything happens in the open (mailing lists, chat rooms). We value democratic processes. | |
| ▲ | MarsIronPI 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you stick with mobile use, there is Snikket[0], which provides a branded server+mobile app ecosystem that should "just work". YMMV; I haven't tried it myself. [0]: https://snikket.org | |
| ▲ | pseudalopex 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Core and advanced meant the compliance suites.[1] [1] https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0479.html | |
| ▲ | Zokii0 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Monocles chat is best one for Android, it is the most complete chatting app for todays standards, unlike Conversations it has swipe to reply, last seen, emoji reactions etc. The only issue is making account there, need to use other homeserver like @conversations.im if you don't want to pay for their @monocles.eu .
For IOS the only option is Monal.
For web I find conversejs better than mov.im as movim doesn't encrypt sent pictures in chat at all, and encryption of text messages is sometimes broken depending on how you set it up in settings of account and in chat, as it needs to be activated on both places, so conversejs is better, but less enjoyable UI than movim | |
| ▲ | cookiengineer 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The ironic part is that those software description files are meaningless. AstraChat claims Advanced in all categories, but it's a proprietary commercial software, so nobody ran any kind of test suite to verify this. That software list, how it's done and how it's ranked is literally confirming my initial point of critique :D Last time I tried out several chat clients, most of them were alpha software, had lots of bugs appearing in normal conversation flows, well, or were so broken that they broke compatibility in subminor version updates to their very same client apps. I just wish there was some kind of ACID test suite for XMPP or something else to reproducibly validate spec compliance. Maybe a test server or similar as a reference implementation. This way client or server maintainers would have to run their programs against the official test server to increase their compliance stats. | | |
| ▲ | edhelas 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I just wish there was some kind of ACID test suite for XMPP or something else to reproducibly validate spec compliance. Maybe a test server or similar as a reference implementation. This way client or server maintainers would have to run their programs against the official test server to increase their compliance stats. This is exactly what the Compliance Suits are for, and the XMPP Software Fundation is taking care of telling all the clients what they misses directly on the official website, for example: https://xmpp.org/software/movim/ | | |
| ▲ | MarsIronPI 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is the XMPP Compliance Tester[0] by the author of Conversations. It does a good job at testing servers. On the client side I'm not aware of any kind of benchmark. [0]: https://codeberg.org/iNPUTmice/caas | |
| ▲ | cookiengineer 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | My point is about why clients like AstraChat can be listed with "Advanced" in the overview, but then in the details page it has nothing. See https://xmpp.org/software/astrachat-xmpp-client/ This should not be allowed. | | |
| ▲ | edhelas 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because the declaration file of the clients says that it is actually compatible with everything in this section. You can't run scripts on all the XEPs declared, some of them are purely redaction or bound to specific UI/UX behaviors. This is based on trust that the developers actually implemented things as stated. | | |
| ▲ | saghm 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not being able to automate something is not the same as not being able to verify at all. It sounds like the parent commenter is arguing that at least some of the clients listed are not worthy of this trust because (either intentionally or due to developer error) they don't actually hold up to scrutiny. Obviously they're just one person and their opinion might not be representative but it's hard to argue that if some random user is expected to have enough time to try out various clients and figure out which ones work or don't that the official people in charge of making the recommendations of clients should probably be able to find the time to as well even if it's just a volunteer that they, well, you know...trust. |
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| ▲ | leetnewb 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hasn't social media like HN, Reddit, fediverse, etc. become the real clearinghouse of information about those sorts of questions? I can see how it would be nice for xmpp.org to be an authoritative source of truth, but user response/consensus seems more relevant these days, at least to me. |
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| ▲ | mfru 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Conversations is a great Android client (also brings their own backend instance if you don't want to host your own), I don't know about iOS or server though. | | |
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| ▲ | palata 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Yes it's a bunch of XEPs, but there are standardized "sets" apparently If the answer to "it's confusing" is "there are apparently standardised sets", it sounds like it is, indeed, confusing :-). | |
| ▲ | Groxx 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And unlike Matrix(/Element), it works most of the time. | |
| ▲ | 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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