| ▲ | knuckleheads 5 hours ago |
| It is a shame that jart got control of @OccupyWallSt and occupywallst.com and never gave it up. It seems like her politics and views are very out of line with many of the people who were originally involved in that movement. Repurposing occupywallst.com for something like this compared to it's origin is a big disappointing contrast. https://web.archive.org/web/20111021162924/http://www.occupy... |
|
| ▲ | jart 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I was the one who registered it. Occupy as a movement has always been inclusive of people with different points of view. My job running the website and twitter has always been to give the people a voice. I think that's important, don't you? The only guy with more credibility than me in Occupy is Micah White but he's been growing vegetables in Oregon ever since he visited Davos a few years back. So I'm the best you've got. |
| |
| ▲ | Edman274 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > My job running the website and twitter has always been to give the people a voice. I think that's important, don't you? Do you truly believe in your heart of hearts that people posting neo-MOASS wish fulfillment suffer from a lack of a voice, and no place for them to be heard? Take this seriously. More important than "a voice" is consistency and clarity of communication. The people involved in occupy wall street in 2011 weren't occupying it because they wanted to eventually join it, and I don't think that their form of economic justice would be for Wall Street to lose money in a gigantic market crash that again would result in taxpayer-funded bailouts that spurred the first protests. For transparency's sake, what are your market positions today? | |
| ▲ | legitster 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > The only guy with more credibility than me in Occupy is Micah White but he's been growing vegetables in Oregon ever since he visited Davos a few years back. So I'm the best you've got. As an outsider to all this, it's funny how these movements always crumble as soon as there is any mainstream recognition. You have X complaint against an institution. Let's say the institution accepts and reforms somewhat. It's pretty rare that the complainant will pat themselves on the back and say job well done. It's ultimately a game of diminishing returns. If you have a hammer, it's not just that everything is a nail - you must find enough nails to justify continuing to use the hammer. | | |
| ▲ | jancsika 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > As an outsider to all this, it's funny how these movements always crumble as soon as there is any mainstream recognition. It crumbled when the physical encampments were forcibly removed by the police. I mean, even at the tiny encampment of UC Davis-- essentially a few camping tents-- the students got pepper sprayed and hauled off. Remember that meme? Many of those same students also faced serious jail time for a protest outside Washington Mutual Bank. It's probably difficult to sustain a movement under those conditions, no? In any case, the message that resonated across the U.S. encampments is essentially what turned into Bernie Sanders two runs for president. That, the group behind AOC's House run, and many other important grassroots movements are the legacy of OWS. Whatever the deal is with jart's website is orthogonal to all this-- I've literally never heard about her association with OWS outside of HN. Edit: clarification |
| |
| ▲ | detourdog 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think whoever registered the domain deserves the domain. I would dislike anyone grabbing my domain because it was perceived as miss used. Secondly a domain and a political movement are 2 different things. Either one can exist without the other. The domain is not even a .org which would be befit a movement ownership | |
| ▲ | closewith 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Seems like you're just giving yourself a voice? Why not do that on a personally branded domain? | |
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | lkey 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > [nobody left] with more credibility than me Source: trust me bro Justine, do you think that readers here don't have eyes? The page linked is a call to financial action that, if the advice is followed, will result in yet another unsophisticated ETF pump and dump at best and a call to financial suicide at worst. You are personally underwriting propaganda for something you are very likely invested in, targeting the most credulous. For it to appear on a site called 'Occupy Wall Street' is deliciously ironic. Here's my disclosure: I am completely divested for both the US and Japanese market, except for transient USD cash holdings. I don't have a horse in this race. Will you follow suit? I know very little of what happened in NYC years ago, but I would tell anyone reading the site now that it is run by actively malevolent speculators. I do, however, know a few of your associates. Stop hanging out with grungy, unwashed sex pests, they aren't as smart as they pretend to be, and you should know that by now. It's unbecoming and frankly sad. You have the means to start life anew elsewhere, and you should take that opportunity now. | |
| ▲ | popalchemist 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Substantively reply to the critique. | |
| ▲ | knuckleheads 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You in particular are my main criticism of Occupy as a movement. They lacked any sort of structure, shunned it in fact, that would have ripped control of these resources away from you once it became clear that you disagreed politically with the vast majority of the people involved. That you were allowed to keep control of those resources is emblematic of how Occupy could let all that energy dissipate into nothing. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Co-opting potentially effective political movements is how the people in control stay in control. Once you start noticing it, you see it time and time again. | |
| ▲ | jart 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What resources? OccupyWallSt.org only accepted enough donations to keep the 1-800 number and website online. I was smart enough to understand back then that an unemployed 26 year old activist living in a park wasn't qualified to manage the capital that was being offered to us. So what did I do? I gave you about twenty different links for various projects on the donation page to choose from. | | |
| ▲ | knuckleheads 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Thank you for another example of why Occupy was doomed to fail, I had not considered that you had control over the donation flow. Instead of working together as a group and finding somebody more responsible than yourself to manage the incoming capital, you diverted it away from the movement and dispersed it to the winds. Was that decision made collectively by the group? Or did you take it upon yourself to do so? Control over the domains and twitter account, along with the incoming flow of donations are the resources that you had and Occupy let you squander. | | |
| ▲ | jart 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Every group that showed up in the park and was working on a project, they could come to me and ask that their donation link be posted on the OccupyWallSt.org donate page. I'm a tech person. I registered a domain. I play it neutral. I included everything from basket weaving to aspiring governments. One of these groups called itself NYCGA or the NYC General Assembly. They were the political organization that claimed dominion over Occupy Wall Street and the public elected to give them the lion's share of donations. The guy who ended up with most of their money, if memory serves me right, is a tattoo artist named Pete Dutro. So these days I'm a lot more opinionated. The Pete Dutros of the financial community took out trillions of dollars of loans from Japan and the economy is crashing right now because of them. We should be focusing on reallocating that capital. | | |
| ▲ | knuckleheads 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | What a fall from grace, trying to fashion buying calls on FXY as a revolution! Put this on your own personal website and redirect that page, let the domain maintain some dignity. | | |
| ▲ | jart 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This was posted on OccupyWallSt.com. The OccupyWallSt.org website is still exactly as it was in its full 2011 looking glory. I've been dragging my heels on renewing the SSL certificate however everything's still there. It's even been cataloged and archived by the Library of Congress for posterity. So the dignity of the movement has been secured and is continuing to be respected. Your voices are now a permanent artifact in America's historical record. | | |
| ▲ | animal_spirits an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I was in 8th grade in 2011 and new to web2.0. Saw much about Occupy Wall St and was inspired. Just thought I'd let you know, so thanks for the work. | | | |
| ▲ | greggoB 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Your voices are now a permanent artifact in America's historical record. I like how the wording here (Your voices) is giving off that sarcastic and patronizing "you're welcome" tone. Like a religious person saying "I'll pray for you" to someone non-religious, where the undertone is an obvious middle finger. It's pretty fun. | | |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | popalchemist 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yep, occupy may have had the moral high ground but they squandered it because they were the modern day hippy idealists with no boots-on-the-ground (or feet touching grass) know-how to actually effect change in a protracted way. | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
| |
| ▲ | giraffe_lady 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, and now you use it for this so what was all that for? | |
| ▲ | AndrewKemendo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’d love to talk with you because I’ve tried to do anarchist organization in the past and it’s super fucking hard one (started here) was successful but one failed hard I’d just be curious to trade stories to see if we can learn from each other My handle@iCloud if you want to reach out |
| |
| ▲ | thomassmith65 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The 'Occupy' energy didn't dissipate into nothing. It fueled extremism and populism, both on the left and on the right. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | riddlemethat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Anyone attempting to build a movement might find it interesting how Pumping Station One in Chicago is governed. It's a maker space but run by people who care (at least from my experience when I was a member back in 2015/2016). The process for electing leadership and holding members accountable was very democratic and fair, from my experience. They open-source as much as they can about how they organize: https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Do-ocracy https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Member_Manual https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Administration |
|
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
|
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
|
| ▲ | shadowgovt 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| jart... Oh, Justine Tunney. Is she still a techno-fascist or did that change at some point? |
| |
| ▲ | johnvanommen 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They’re in the thread, ask them | |
| ▲ | giraffe_lady 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't think it did, she was openly pro-musk during his purges with doge so very recently. | | | |
| ▲ | lbrito 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As in Curtis Yarvin, Dark Enlightenment techno fascist? Really? | | |
| ▲ | shadowgovt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Specifically. https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/123614 - reference page 68. "Questioned on Twitter about her beliefs, she replied:
"Read Mencius Moldbug."" (Original source of that information, as cited by above paper, is https://thebaffler.com/latest/mouthbreathing-machiavellis ; I don't have a Twitter archive at my fingertips so I cannot pull up the primary source.) | | |
| ▲ | lbrito 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Fascinating. I had no idea. I feel International coverage, and even academic studies on the movement, missed this completely at the time. | | |
| ▲ | shadowgovt 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | If by "the movement," you mean Occupy Wall St., one of the things about it as an organization is that it didn't have a mechanism to exclude people really, if I understand correctly. So there was a pretty broad slice of political philosophies united around the common idea "The system that rewards risk-takers for taking risks with other people's money while consolidating the consequences on those who did not consent to the risks is fundamentally flawed." |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | jstanley 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | shadowgovt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I know what you're referring to, but this one is well-documented. When Tunney and I were last in overlapping circles, she self-described as techno-fascist. It's pretty well-documented (though I apologize for assuming it was common knowledge; since I was there and knew of her to only one or two degrees of separation, it's easy for me to forget she's not necessarily a well-known name). https://www.salon.com/2017/08/19/who-gets-fired-for-being-a-... Zhang, Zhexi. 2019. "The Aesthetics of Decentralization." p.68 https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/libertarians-sometime... ... also, my intent was not to cast aspersions. When last I heard the name, I had a particular political leaning associated to the name and I was wondering if it had changed. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | znpy 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Quoting from https://web.archive.org/web/20111021162924/http://www.occupy... > This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society. Maybe at some point those people will understand that high-school approach doesn't work in the real world. Look at the amount of change they brought, look at the amount of change that a single person like Donald Trump has brought (for better or worse, this is not an endorsement). |
|
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [deleted] |