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lelanthran 7 hours ago

> Which as a tendency threatens ALL clumsy big ERP service providers selling you SAAS.

Wait, what?

The big ERP vendors aren't under any threat, the small ones are.

No business is going to switch from a system that has armies of low-paid consultants to in house AI developed system that has effectively zero consultants who can come in and perform the deployment with tested integrations to their accounting system, their 200 suppliers, their customer systems and their 3rd party auditing systems.

But, small businesses who were not going with a 12m contract for 5 consultants, and who dont have any need for integrations to suppliers, customers and 3rd party systems can do their own systems.

It sounds like you are very far removed from ERP and business systems in general.

All magnetic coding is going to do is further entrench existing large systems because new systems, whether AI generated or not, will be too numerous for any one of them to gain traction.

RobinL 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My wife's old company, a fairly significant engineering consultancy, ran it's entire time/job management and invoicing system from a company wide, custom developed Microsoft Access app called 'Time'.

It was developed by a single guy in the IT department and she liked it.

About 5 years ago the company was acquired, and they had to move to their COTS 'enterprise' system (Maconomy).

All staff from the old company had to do a week long (!) training course in how to use this and she hates it.

In future I think there will be more things like 'Time' (though presumably not MS Access based!)

lelanthran 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> In future I think there will be more things like 'Time' (though presumably not MS Access based!)

That's my assertion - those things like 'Time' can be developed by an AI primarily because there is no requirement of an existence of a community from which to hire.

It's an example of a small ERP system - no consultants, no changes, no community, etc.

Large systems (Sage, SAP, Syspro, etc) are purchased based on the existing pool of contractors that can be hired.

Right now, if you had a competing SAP/Syspro system freshly developed, that had all the integrations that a customer needs, how on earth will they deploy it if they cannot hire people to deploy it?

spockz 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I still think MS Access was awesome. In the small companies I worked it was used successfully by moderately tech savvy directors and support employees to manage ERP, license generation, invoices, etc.

The most heard gripe was the concurrent access to the database file but I think that was solved by backing the forms by accessing anything over odbc.

It looked terrible but also was highly functional.

RobinL 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Agreed! The first piece of software I built was a simple inventory and sales management system, around 2000. I was 16 and it was just about my first experience programming.

It was for school, and I recently found the write up and was surprised how well the system worked.

Ever since I've marvelled at how easy it was to build something highly functional that could incorporate complex business logic, and wished there was a more modern equivalent.

spockz 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe a combination of AirTable and PowerBI/open-source alternative? Or just ms access backed by a proper database?

jon-wood 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Grist[1] is great for this stuff, at first glance its a spreadsheet but that spreadsheet is backed by a SQLite database and you can put an actual UI on top of it without leaving the tool, or you can write full blown plugins in Javascript and HTML if you need to go further than that.

[1] https://www.getgrist.com/

viraptor 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Just another yay for Grist here! I've been looking for an Access alternative for quite a while and nothing really comes close. You can try hacking it together with various BI tools, but nothing really feels as accessible as the original Access. While it's not a 1:1 mapping and the graphical report building is not really there, you can still achieve what you need. It's like Access 2.0 to me.

fsagx 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Access as a front end for mssqlserver ran great in a small shop. Seems like there was a wizard that imported the the access tables easily into sqlserver.

I've not seen anything as easy to use as the Access visual query builder and drag-n-drop report builder thing.

mschild 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> No business is going to switch from a system that has armies of low-paid consultants to in house AI developed system

Are you sure about that? Because thats exactly what Klarna is doing/has done.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1957789124930286065.html?...

mrkeen 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> We realized 1 million context window is not enough to explain all facets of Klarna > Every new thread of AI is the same employee starting from scratch again. First day at the job.

Agents are limited. With you so far.

> This week we get a demo of a vibe coded frontend that is more beautiful and easy to use than any ticket management system I have seen

Again, totally matches my expectations. Agents totally make pretty stuff that looks like working software.

I just haven't drunk enough management wine to connect the dots and figure out these facts support a jira replacement.

It also gets me wondering, if Atlassian leaned more heavily into AI (More vibe coding, more agents, more layoffs) would they have been able to keep the Klarna contract?

lelanthran 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Are you sure about that? Because thats exactly what Klarna is doing/has done.

That link does not say that they are switching away from a system that requires armies of consultants to implement.

AFAICT, they are switching away from Jira (Atlassian/confluence products). Those are not ERP systems.

Once again, I must point out that the these sorts of assertions reveal that the person making the assertion has never been involved in an ERP rollout, neither a big one nor a small one.

And, again, I reiterate, the only threat is to small players in the market, who don't have a community to hire from. Because to become a big player, you need to gain traction as a small player, and if every small ERP system can be replaced with an AI generated system, non single one is ever going to gain traction (Why pay $10/user/month for a basic system when you can have AI generate that for a once of fee and some employee time?)

mschild 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Workday is not an ERP? Beyond that, they're effectively replacing major stacks of traditional SaaS tools with in-house ones. Considering the scale and complexity of what Klarna does and the regulations it has to follow across many different markts, I'd say its a valid concern. Now, I don't think SAP etc are going anywhere, especially in traditional businesses where most of the company is reliant on it, but it seems there is a way to do it.

That said, plenty of banks still run on mainframes and use COBOL.

https://www.salesforceben.com/klarna-salesforce-workday-part...

lelanthran 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Well lets see how it works out for them - they're ending the partnership for HR software in order to build their own, but they say they haven't built anything yet!

larodi 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It sounds like you are very far removed from ERP and business systems in general.

am I really? it sounds so many people in big ERP service providers are oblivious of the tide rising that will wash them away, because you know what - most of these companies are super pricey, super slow, very messy and tend to fail large-scale projects that cost millions? I've seen this happen personally, and I have personally, as a sole player implemented ERPs with custom inhouse software.

Trust me brother, I know ERPs very well and seen hundreds of high-profile fakers that have zero knowledge of E/R, Business Architecture, and integrations, that still believe they can get away with nonsense.

Hope you're not one of them.

lelanthran 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Hope you're not one of them.

I've been part of enough ERP contracts to know that customers evaluate their options based on how easy it is to hire consultants on the open market.

I did do quite a lot of custom software prior to AI-slop, and that market is completely destroyed with vibe-coding agents. The ERP one looks like it is simply going to further entrench the big players, because new ERPs evolve from some custom application, and once that pipeline is gone, your choices are going to be "build it yourself with no ability to hire for it" or "Go with one of the existing behemoths".

My argument is that AI will remove the pipeline that leads to incumbents seeing more competition.

darkwater 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> on how easy it is to hire consultants on the open market.

In the not not so distant future (5 years? 10?) that consultant market will be of people with very good process knowledge and very good prompting skills. Which might or might not be in a good part the same consultant market we have today.

newsclues 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You think the big players aren’t going to use the new tools to massively cut employees and costs?