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| ▲ | ffsm8 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You're wrong - at least from the perspective of the commons. First paragraph on Wikipedia > Child pornography (CP), also known as child sexual abuse material (CSAM) and by more informal terms such as kiddie porn,[1][2][3] is erotic material that involves or depicts persons under the designated age of majority. The precise characteristics of what constitutes child pornography vary by criminal jurisdiction.[4][5] Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn.
While i'd agree that sexualizing kids is disgusting, denying that it's porn on that grounds is feels kinda... Childish? Like someone holding their ears closed and shouting loudly in order not to hear the words the adults around them are saying. | | |
| ▲ | bawolff 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the idea is that normal porn can be consensual. Material involving children never can be. Perhaps similar to how we have a word for murder that is different from "killing" even though murder always involves killing. | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > First paragraph on Wikipedia "...the encyclopedia anyone can edit." Yes, there are people who wish to redefine CSAM to include child porn - including even that between consenting children committing no crime and no abuse. Compare and contrast Interpol. https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children/A... > The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. I have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread. | | |
| ▲ | ffsm8 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread. > > Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? Your interpol link seems to be literally using the same argument again from a very casual glance btw. > We encourage the use of appropriate terminology to avoid trivializing the sexual abuse and exploitation of children. > Pornography is a term used for adults engaging in consensual sexual acts distributed (mostly) legally to the general public for their sexual pleasure. | | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? I assumed you expected us to know what you were referring to. |
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| ▲ | 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | direwolf20 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, RAINN are stupid then. CSAM is the woke word for child pornography, which is the normal.word for pornography involving children. Pornography is defined as material aiming to sexually stimulate, and CSAM is that. | | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | > CSAM is the woke word for child pornography I fear you could be correct. | | |
| ▲ | direwolf20 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | CSAM is to child pornography as MAP is to pedophile. Both words used to refer to a thing without the negative connotation. | | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd say it was the other way around, MAP is an attempt at avoiding the stigma of pedophile, while CSAM is saying "pornography can be an entirely acceptable, positive, consensual thing, but that's not what 'pornography' involving children is, it's evidence of abuse or exploitation or..." | | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well put. The term CSAM was adopted in the UK following outrage over the "Gary Glitter Effect" - soaring offence rates driven by news of people caught downloading images of unspeakable abuse crimes getting mild sentences for mere child porn. This is why many feel strongly about defending the term "CSAM" from those who seek to dilute it to cover e.g. mild Grok-style child porn. The UK Govt. has announced plans to define CSAM in law. |
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| ▲ | chrisjj 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > CSSM is to child pornography CSSM? | | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ah. You edited it to CSAM. Thanks. Well, I'm sure CSAM has negative connotation. Our UK Govt. doesn't keep a database of all CSAM found by the police because its a positive thing. | | |
| ▲ | direwolf20 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Only people who are involved in CSAM arguments on the internet know what CSAM means. Ask some random person on the street if they know what CSAM means. Then ask them if they know what child porn means. | | |
| ▲ | chrisjj 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Only people who are involved in CSAM arguments on the internet know what CSAM means. I'm pretty sure you can add all the Governments, police depts and online safety organisations who use this term and rely upon it. Do include the 196 countries which depend on the Interpol CSAM database. |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Dude just stop, you are being ridiculous now. |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A distinction without a difference. Even if some kid makes a video of themselves jerking off for their own personal enjoyment, unprompted by anyone else, if someone else gains access to that (eg a technician at a store or an unprincipled guardian) and makes a copy for themselves they're criminally exploiting the kid by doing so. | | |
| ▲ | guerrilla 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Seems like a pretty big difference. It's got to be worse to actually do something to somone in real life than not do that. | | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Just because there are different degrees of severity and different ways to offend doesn't make it not contraband. | | |
| ▲ | guerrilla 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I didn't argue they weren't. The person above me argued that the difference didn't matter. It does. |
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| ▲ | lysp 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not really, otherwise perpetrators will just "I was just looking at it, I didn't do anything as bad as creating it". Their act is still illegal. There was a cartoon picture I remember seeing around 15+ years ago of Bart Simpson performing a sex act. In some jurisdictions (such as Australia), this falls under the legal definition. | | |
| ▲ | guerrilla 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Not really, otherwise perpetrators You don't think it's worse to molest a child than to not molest a child? |
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| ▲ | chrisjj 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > A distinction without a difference. Huge difference here in Europe. CSAM is a much more serious crime. That's why e.g. Interpol runs a global database of CSAM but doesn't bother for mere child porn. |
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