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amelius a day ago

Maybe they should look more at how other countries quite successfully banned fire arms. Hint: it wasn't by banning printers.

AustinDev a day ago | parent | next [-]

They could attempt it, but the Second Amendment is quite clear that a constitutional amendment would be necessary to ban firearms and ammunition.

bitwize 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[flagged]

zelda420 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What a dystopia. If anything the situation in Minnesota should teach liberal Americans that they all need to arm themselves massively.

BobaFloutist 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, and remind me what happened to the liberal American that armed himself in Minnesota?

nickthegreek 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

He wasn't standing next to 25 other liberals who had armed themselves.

BobaFloutist 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Ah, got it, 25 is the magic number that makes you bulletproof.

GenerWork 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

mikem170 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> drawing on a federal officer

It is my understanding [0] that multiple videos show that Petti did not draw his gun.

Do you know of evidence to the contrary?

[0] https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/did-pretti-draw-wea...

nickthegreek 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> He attempted to be a hero by drawing on a federal officer.

Absolutely vile smear against a hard working VA nurse and stand up citizen.

There were zero attempts made by Alex Pretti to draw a weapon. He was being a hero by helping 2 women move away from the masked officers forcefully pushing them.

mindslight 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I actually appreciate it when fascists lie so brazenly - it makes it easier to ignore their nonsense, and also starkly demonstrates how little respect they have for truth.

9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
amanaplanacanal 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.

foobarchu 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There is video evidence and many eyewitnesses that he did no such thing. If you need to lie to justify fascism, maybe you shouldn't be supporting fascism.

He possessed a weapon on his person in a state where that in completely legal, in a country whose constitution explicitly says he's allowed to own that weapon. There was not a single reason for him to be executed by federal agents.

afpx 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There would have to be a very long period of peace, first. Periods of government instability, as we have now, actually cause American citizens to want to reaffirm their rights, not relinquish them. And, the 2nd amendment represents something symbolically beyond its function: a unified collective will against tyranny, corruption, and evil.

int_19h 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At the moment, the most dangerous people with guns in US are the ones working for the federal government.

le-mark 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Get grass roots support for it.

This must be satire. This will never, ever happen in the US. Guns are a religion here.

throw3e98 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Get grass roots support for it.

You know that line from the Mandalorian, "Weapons are part of my religion"?

That is true in the most literal possible sense for a large portion of Americans. And not all of them right-wing, either- if anything, the past 5 years have convinced many of my left-wing friends to get concealed weapons training and being carrying pistols.

delaminator 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"anyone who opposes the government must be stopped"

are you sure?

hoarseAAPL a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

SCOTUS has ruled before that 2A does not afford freedom to own any kind of weapon. There are limits on explosives for example.

They tend to lean on whether it is reasonable that the Founders might have had access to such a weapon with their technology. Machine gun is just a rifle with automatic rechamber. Not an unreasonable upgrade for 1700s technology. Maybe, I dunno; political people don't have to actually care about the details.

There are limits. And if cases like this made it there they might rule that no Founder was smelting the materials. That they would have had to collaborate, in some "market dictates options" ruling to limit hermits going in a rampage. Also everyone a weapons assembly line in their home is anti-corporate capitalism.

"George Washington understood the value of civic life and sound economics! He would not have tolerated such insular selfishness! He did not make his own weapons! He engaged in trade!"

Not saying it's realistic but politics is not never controlled by people living in reality. Making shit up seems as reasonable as anything.

9x39 a day ago | parent | next [-]

>SCOTUS has ruled before that 2A does not afford freedom to own any kind of weapon. There are limits on explosives for example.

This is largely machine guns and explosives. Pistols, rifles, etc are ordinary weapons in common use*

*NYC authorities may not agree

hoarseAAPL 21 hours ago | parent [-]

https://ammo.com/research/list-of-banned-guns-and-ammo-by-st...

Sawed off shotguns seems arbitrary and that was ultimately my (pre-coffee) point; government is fine with coming up with an arbitrary restriction when they want.

They could outlaw the means of production. Gen pop is not allowed to own that.

int_19h 8 hours ago | parent [-]

There is, in fact, a good question wrt how much of NFA is actually constitutional. A funny thing about this is that ATF has dropped cases on several occasions where the defendant tried this angle, presumably because they didn't want something contrary to their current regulations as written to be overturned in court, and because they had plenty of other charges to throw at those guys anyway.

WillAdams 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Given that it was modeled on gun control legislation from pre-WWII Germany, it's _not_ something which they want looked at too closely.

21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
rpcope1 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When and where can I buy a cannon with grapeshot? They had that during the revolutionary war, and the founding fathers probably owned at least one, so I want to be able to yell "Tally Ho!" too.

browsingonly 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Here, among other vendors:

https://southbendreplicas.com/

mothballed a day ago | parent | prev [-]

The only weapon class I know of that's outright illegal to own is anti-aircraft missiles. That carries life imprisonment just for possession, with no violent intent. Because the government never wants to give up its air supremacy. This is why whenever you hear of feds concocting an international weapons conspiracy they always have to add anti-air bazookas to the charges because it's the only thing that actually can unequivocally be proven as illegal to own[0].

Basically everything else can be owned with an NFA tax stamp. Nuclear weapons my understanding is the difficulty is more with laws on handling the material than specifically owning one as a weapon, so I'm unsure those are even outright illegal either.

Explosives are actually one of the ones with looser restrictions. Even felons can own and re-instate their explosives rights, because bafflingly when congress de-funded the firearms rights restoration process for felons they forgot to do the one for explosives. Felons can also own and manufacture explosive black powder without scrutiny or paperwork, even ones intended to go in a black powder gun.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68365597

nick__m 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here the law https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332g it says "shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment not less than 25 years or to imprisonment for life." Even conspiring to acquire them is as illegal as possession!

reactordev a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Fully automatic assault rifles, anti-aircraft guns (that still operate), anti-aircraft missiles (that still operate), land mines over a certain size, or any Comp B. Those are on the naughty list.

There’s a whole community of folks building semi-automatic auto-return triggers that are “technically” semi automatic, but with just a gentle squeeze, fire off another. If you maintain that grip, the return mechanism engages, returning the trigger to firing position, where your pressure causes it to fire again… it’s called a Forced Reset Trigger.

hoarseAAPL 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Sawed off shotguns, sawed off barrels in general.

My point overall was government is fine with arbitrary exceptions that would get Stan's dad going all "Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was America."

Retric a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Forearms yes, percussion caps no.

A large fraction of the harm from firearms comes from their ability to fire rapidly which didn’t exist when the constitution was written. As such it was making a very different balance of risk between the general public and individuals.

kube-system a day ago | parent | next [-]

1. The second amendment wasn't written because the authors thought guns were inert. It was written precisely because they could impart deadly force.

2. As someone else pointed out, early repeating rifles did exist then.

3. If the meaning of the constitution is only to be evaluated against the technology available at the time -- what does that say about the validity of the 1st or 4th amendments with modern technology?

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Air guns existed sure. There’s a reason those aren’t used by the military today, they just aren’t that dangerous.

kube-system 21 hours ago | parent [-]

They're deadly and rapid fire.

But again, in historical context, the point of the 2A was to permit people to own the most deadly weapons of war that existed at that time.

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

> They’re deadly and rapid fire

So are a pile of stones, it’s the degree of risk to the public that matters not some arbitrary classification.

Ignoring differences is degree here isn’t enough to win the argument.

kube-system 21 hours ago | parent [-]

That is an argument that people make today.

Where was that part of the decision making process in 1789?

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Firearms (ops Arms) was used rather than weapons suggesting some level of consideration here. They had cannons and warships back then. That bit about a well regulated militia suggests limits on what exactly was permissible.

But obviously we don’t have direct knowledge of every conversation.

ndriscoll 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The point about cannons and warships actually makes it very clear about what the authors' intent was re: balance of risk; at the time, private ownership of artillery was completely legal and unregulated. Private citizens owned warships with dozens of live cannons that could bombard coastal cities, and didn't even need to file paperwork to do so! A warship can cause quite a bit more mayhem than a glock.

Retric 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Legal yes, protected by the constitution without constraint no.

Both the use of Arms being man portable weapons and militia makes a very clear distinction.

kube-system 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Firearms was used rather than weapons

Where? The constitution says neither. It says "Arms"

Regardless, the constitution specifically makes reference to the private ownership of cannons and warships.

> To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Retric 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Arms at the time meant man portable weapons as distinct from cannons or trebuchet etc.

Just posted about firearms so many times used the wrong word here.

bluGill 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Cannons were regularly privately owned at the time

Retric 11 hours ago | parent [-]

For sake of argument I’ll agree, but again by explicitly using arms here they where excluding them from constitutional protection not banning them.

ndriscoll a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Girardoni repeating air rifle predates the ratification of the constitution by ~11 years and was taken on the Lewis and Clark expedition ~13 years later. Really the whole discussion around 2A is usually nonsense because it ignores the context that the entire Bill of Rights had a completely different meaning prior to the 14th amendment leading to incorporation over the last century (and other expansions of federal power via commerce clause); that is, the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the states.

Very obviously individuals were expected to be part of the militia, which was the military at the time (c.f. the Militia Acts 2 years after ratification requiring individual gun ownership and very clearly laying out that all able-bodied white male citizens aged 18-45 were part of the militia), but also states could regulate weapons if they wanted.

Retric a day ago | parent [-]

> Girardoni repeating air rifle

Not a firearm.

I didn’t say we could ban compressed air powered guns, I specifically said percussion caps. The Girardoni was way less dangerous than a modern handgun.

ndriscoll a day ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, but compressed air guns are deadly (you can find videos of people using them on deer on youtube, or if you want something less graphic, you can find ballistic gel test videos), and a repeating rifle did exist at the time and was used a couple years later by an official American expedition commissioned by Jefferson. So fast-firing weapons were not some alien technology. The wider context also makes it clear that 2A was supposed to give individuals the right to own whatever weapons the military uses because at the time, there was no standing military. Individuals were summoned and expected to bring their own weapons, hence the law requiring them to own them.

In the 230 intervening years, we've vastly increased the scope of the federal government and developed a formal military, so one might argue we ought to amend the constitution to change exactly what's allowed under 2A (e.g. it should be straightforward to have a nuclear weapons ban added with unanimous agreement), but as it stands, 2A (+14A) clearly gives individuals the right to own the arms necessary to run a functioning ("well-regulated") militia, which in 2026 means at least semi-automatic firearms.

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

> So fast-firing weapons were not some alien technology.

Thrown stones are a fast firing deadly weapon. They, compressed air guns, and ball musket etc aren’t used by modern military forces in combat because they are less dangerous.

A rule that allows compressed air weapons yet bans percussion caps is quite reasonable and could pass constitutional scrutiny.

ndriscoll 21 hours ago | parent [-]

It might be quite reasonable, but it would also quite clearly require an amendment to do in the US, which is what you originally replied to.

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Grenades a clear requirement for a modern infantry are also banned, thus eliminating any argument that a modern standards of military efficiency apply.

Banding heavy machine guns yet another invention after the constitution was written didn’t, so there’s clear present this wouldn’t either.

int_19h 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What makes you believe that grenades are banned in US? They are heavily taxed, yes - $200 per grenade - but they aren't banned on the federal level, and there are people who legally own such things.

kube-system 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Except "it was made after the constitution was written" is a standard you've made up -- there is existing case law from SCOTUS that 2A protects guns "in common use"

Retric 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Actually things that are new after the constitution was written is regularly brought up before the court it’s a very common argument. The thing was written a long time ago, everyone involved in the process acknowledges that fact. The degree to which papers applies to electronic data should be familiar to you.

Supreme court rulings are arbitrary as they regularly reverse or update standards, sometimes multiple times.

kube-system 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, if your argument is found to be right in the future, then it will be right. Currently it is not, and it is unlikely to be any different until the composition of the court changes. Until then, the only other path to change it is an amendment.

Retric 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree it’s the composition of the Supreme Court that’s at issue not the constitution.

Saying what arguments are right doesn’t make sense in these contexts only what is the current precedent.

21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
maxlybbert 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, this comes up, but the Court tends to say things that didn’t exist are covered by constitutional rights. I can’t imagine think of any time they asked “could the founders have imagined this?” Television, radio, and the internet are all protected by freedom of the press without anybody ever showing that the founders could have imagined them.

From Heller v. DC:

“Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.”

A few years after that ruling, the Massachusetts state supreme court upheld a conviction for a woman who had carried a taser for self defense. The Supreme Court accepted her challenge, allowed it to go forward without paying court costs, and unanimously overturned that ruling without asking for oral arguments ( https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/577/411/ ):

“The court offered three explanations to support its holding that the Second Amendment does not extend to stun guns. First, the court explained that stun guns are not protected because they ‘were not in common use at the time of the Second Amendment’s enactment.’ This is inconsistent with Heller’s clear statement that the Second Amendment ‘extends . . . to . . . arms . . . that were not in existence at the time of the founding.’

“The court next asked whether stun guns are ‘dangerous per se at common law and unusual,’ in an attempt to apply one ‘important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms.’ ... In so doing, the court concluded that stun guns are ‘unusual’ because they are ‘a thoroughly modern invention.’ By equating ‘unusual’ with ‘in common use at the time of the Second Amendment’s enactment,’ the court’s second explanation is the same as the first; it is inconsistent with Heller for the same reason.

“Finally, the court used ‘a contemporary lens’ and found ‘nothing in the record to suggest that [stun guns] are readily adaptable to use in the military.’ But Heller rejected the proposition ‘that only those weapons useful in warfare are protected.’

“For these three reasons, the explanation the Massachusetts court offered for upholding the law contradicts this Court’s precedent.”

The fact that Caetano was a unanimous and thorough ruling says a lot to me. Perhaps you’re holding out hope that Heller will be overturned soon, but the chances for that are very slim ( https://youtu.be/nFTRwD85AQ4 ).

AngryData 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The Girardoni is certainly and unusual example but is deadly. However more importantly it is far from the first repeating firearm. There is the Kalthoff and Cookson repeating rifles as the most prominent examples. And both Jefferson and Washington personally got offered to purchase repeating firearms per their own journals, im im sure they weren't the only founders to receive such offers for both personal and military usage.

9x39 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

The balance of power being considered then was between the state and the people. Fear over a standing army was real.

Retric a day ago | parent [-]

Crime exited when the constitution was written, suggesting the framers were only concerned with interactions at the state level is to insult their intelligence. Not to mention specific text like people’s rights to a jury trial etc.

9x39 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Principally concerned between the state and the people, not only. The context was the nature of England at the time. It was viewed as an oppressive force.

The right to a jury trial is another example of favoring the individual instead of say, the Star Chamber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber

I don’t think we even disagree per se, but it’s hard to argue the constitution wasn’t written primarily with the thought of what England and how it exercised authority in mind. Individual roadmen and ruffians, let’s say, existed but weren’t existential threats to shape the tone of the new nation’s foundation, were they?

Retric 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Lawlessness is a complete breakdown of state power and just as threatening to a new country as foreign powers.

The degree of importance they place on individual factors here is obviously debatable, but they just had two governments fail. England and the articles of confederation didn’t work so there was a larger emphasis on practicality over idealism.

dylan604 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not about banning, it's about taxing. Distilling liquor without paying taxes is illegal.

9x39 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Their proposal is about getting lines like this ratified:

"No person, firm or corporation shall sell or deliver any three-dimensional printer in the state of New York unless such printer is equipped with blocking technology," https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2025/S9005

They don't like firearms in the hands of the public.

The goal is to be an indirect ban that's hard to challenge. California has had significant success with strategies such as requiring "microstamping technology" (but it could be anything - it's just a limiting mechanism) in conjunction with an approved handgun roster to limit handgun sales in the state. This is almost certain to be a similar strategy.

marcosdumay a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Distilling liquor without paying taxes is illegal.

One can always expect the "don't thread on me" country to have some of the craziest, most intrusive rules at the most random places.

wizzwizz4 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

This is handled without banning glass containers.

dylan604 a day ago | parent [-]

Nobody banned anything here either.

wizzwizz4 a day ago | parent [-]

What's "blocking technology", then? I'm repeating an argument from the article, which itself is an argument older than the microprocessor:

> But the answer to misuse isn’t surveillance built into the tool itself. We don’t require table saws to scan wood for weapon shapes. We don’t require lathes to phone home before turning metal. We prosecute people who make illegal things, not people who own tools.