Yeah I'm in the same boat. I was pretty excited to bring stuff over from Cloudflare but the missing S3 compat. and the communication around that was (and still is) a dealbreaker for me.

You left out the part where they realized they couldn't ship S3 compatibility without rebuilding their storage service. So they have decided to rebuild their storage service. Not really a small project. So I can see how its taking longer. At least they were transparent about it.

I’m seeing log delays too the past couple of days… something like 14 hours, in my case.

Yes, libSQL would fit better in that case. But all of it is marketing for better audience ;) (SQLite got x69 more searches than libSQL in Google).

> Maybe I'm not the target market for this, but how hard is it REALLY to manage a RDBMS?

It depends:

- do you want multi region presence

- do you want snapshot backups

- do you want automated replication

- do you want transparent failover

- do you want load balancing of queries

- do you want online schema migrations with millisecond lock time

- do you want easy reverts in time

- do you want minor versions automatically managed

- do you want the auth integrated with a different existing system

- do you want...

There's a lot that hosted services with extra features can give you. You can do everything on the list yourself of course, but it will take time and unless you already have experience, every point can introduce some failure you're not aware of.

I would have no concerns around reliability uptime running my own database.

I would have concerns around backups (ensuring that your backups are actually working, secure, and reliable seems like potentially time intensive ongoing work).

I also don't think I fully understand what is required in terms of security. Do I now have to keep track of CVEs, and work out what actions I need to in response to each one? You talk about firewall rules. I don't know what is required here either.

I'm sure it's not too hard to hire someone who does know how to do these things, but probably not for anything close to the $50/month or whatever it costs to run a hosted database.

Backups are a PITA I wanted to go exactly this route but even though I had VMs and compute I can't let any production data hit it without bullet proof backups.

I setup a cron job to store my backups to object storage but everything felt very fragile because if any detail in the chain was misconfigured I'd basically have a broken production database. I'd have to watch the database constantly or setup alerts and notifications.

If there is a ready to go OSS postgres with backups configured you can deploy I'd happily pay them for that.

It's not about it being hard, it's about delegating. Many companies are a bit less sensitive to pricing and would rather pay monthly for someone else to keep their database up, rather than spending engineering hours on setting up a database, tuning it, updating it, checking its backups, monitoring it and making it scale if needed.

Sure, any regular SME can just install Postgres or MySQL without even setting much up except with `mysql_secure_install`, a user with a password and an 'app' database. But you may end up with 10-20 database installs you need to back up, patch and so on every once in a while. And companies value that.

> Maybe I'm not the target market for this, but how hard is it REALLY to manage a RDBMS?

It is not. You can provision a free Postgres instance with a single click: https://neon.new/

One instance maybe but multi regional?

Look into the capabilities of what I consider the leading edge of open source RDBMS managed solutions, Yugabyte: https://www.yugabyte.com

And tell me how easily you can achieve this "out of the box"

If you don't care about business continuity or high availability then everything gets easier

> And neither MySQL or Postgres ever seem to go down, they're super reliable and stable

The box they're on goes down

> Any Linux distro

What is the upgrade path?

How often do they release?

Do I have to worry about CVEs?

Who is doing network security?

Who is testing that security?

Where are my credentials stored?

Do I have a dashboard that tracks the hundreds of resources I'm responsible for including this new one?

> Plus you have very stable costs each month

I'm sick and tired of managing linux boxes. It simply doesn't scale in any reasonable way.

That's the only reason that I clicked.

I hear one of them owes money all over town.

But at least the bunny eating a cookie is cute.

Accurate, but missing required punctuation of at least 1 grawlix of length 4 and 2 interrobangs

Seconded

The best thing about their pricing is that you can prepay. So if you have a runaway cost, it can stop before you run up a 5 or 6 figure bill, unlike Azure/AWS/GCP/CF.

Can you share some anecdotes?

It does feel like they're spreading their resources pretty thin though, the S3-compatible interface for their file storage has been "coming soon" since 2022.

Huh, how? Did you have to modify your site a lot to do switch?

I tried to test it out as a CDN replacement for Cloudflare but the workflow was a lot different. Instead of just using DNS to put it in front of another website and proxy the requests (the "orange cloud" button), I had to upload all the assets to Bunny and then rewrite the URLs in my app. Was kind of a pain

Same, it's nice to use a no-BS CDN for personal projects (e.g. https://atlasof.space/). Their pricing is good and I actually appreciate that they have no free tier so that there's no "oh shit" moment when you suddenly exceed it and owe real $$$ (looking at you, Netlify). I probably won't use their database feature but I'll for sure keep using their CDN if they can keep things as straightforward as they currently are.

parse.com was my last straw building on "as a service" startups because of this. DaaS is not even particularly good for hobby projects anymore given how easy it is to work with sqlite.

LibSQL doesn't look anywhere close to active enough to consider it for production IMO.

Just compare the most recent commits from LibSQL: https://github.com/tursodatabase/libsql/commits/main/

To those of SQLite: https://sqlite.org/src/timeline

One of these looks like a healthy and actively maintained project. The other isn't quite dead, but it's limping along.

This documentation page[1] seems pretty clear. One primary at a time, any number of read replicas that automatically proxy writes to the primary, when compute scales to zero the data is in object storage and a new primary can spin up elsewhere.

[1]: https://docs.bunny.net/database/replication

For one they're EU-based, which may be a selling point if you're inclined to divest from US tech when possible.

Cloudflare IPs might not work in Spain during football matches :)

It looks like there might be issues in Italy too.

Small companies often have much better technical support than large companies where you just get lost in the system. One of the reasons I moved away from R2 was that it was impossible to contact anyone about the serious issues I had with the product. I’m using Bunny for CDN and have found them to be very responsive.

Disclaimer: I have not used either product; I have used a number of Cloudflare's (mostly free tier) offerings.

In addition to the other points brought up, it looks like pricing strongly favors Bunny once you're outside of Cloudflare's free tier.

Per billion rows read: Bunny $0.30, Cloudflare $1.00 (first 25B/month free)

Per million rows written: Bunny $0.30, Cloudflare $1.00 (first 50M/month free)

Per GB stored: Bunny $0.10/region, Cloudflare $0.75 (5GB free)

Bunny also has a lot better region selection, 41 available vs. Cloudflare's 6 (see https://developers.cloudflare.com/d1/configuration/data-loca...). Even though Bunny charges storage per region used where Cloudflare doesn't, Bunny still comes out cheaper with 7 regions selected. Bunny lets you choose how many and which regions to replicate across; Cloudflare's region replication is an on/off toggle that is in beta and requires you to use "the new Sessions API" (I don't know what this entails).

The main reason I haven't tried out D1 is that it locks you into using Workers to access the database. Bunny says they have an HTTP API.

I plan to stick with VPSes for compute and storage, but I do like seeing someone (other than Amazon) challenge Cloudflare on their huge array of fun toys for devs to play with.

Good question, the cloudflare speedtest has a bunny in it.

Not a technical reason, but given Cloudflare's recent business practices where they hold you hostage if you don't upgrade to an enterprise plan are a pretty good reason to avoid imo.

Some ISPs have bad peering with Cloudflare (e.g. Deutsche Telekom). Not Cloudflares fault but it makes it a bad choice if your customers are in Germany.

And Cloudflare is an american company.

It’s not an american company.

Marek here from bunny.net. We’re not saying SQLite is universally better than Postgres. The trade-off we’re optimizing for is cost model and operational simplicity.

Even as a managed service, Postgres DBaaS still tends to push users into capacity planning, instance tiers, and paying for idle headroom. Using a SQLite-compatible engine lets us offer a truly usage-based model with affordable read replication and minimal idle costs.

Yes, they mention they use libsql. Don't know why I should use them and not the product by the actual libsql authors.