It's a pity. It's also a step back from valuing the Unix philosophy, which has its merits, especially for those with a "learning the system from scratch" mindset. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for systemd.

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cf100clunk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

SysVinit has been seen by some people in the post-systemd world as some sort of mystifying mashup concocted by sadists, yet I've found that when it is explained well, it is clear and human-friendly, with easy uptake by newcomers. I echo that this decision is a pity.

	▲	acdha 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		It’s not just explaining but whether you have to support it on more than one distribution/version or handle edge cases. For a simple learning exercise, it can be easier to start with but even in the 90s it was notably behind, say, Windows NT 3 in a lot of ways which matter.
	▲	raverbashing 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		"When it's explained well" is the keyword I'm not a systemD fan but SysV is not without its quirks and weirdness and foot guns

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PunchyHamster 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

sysv is garbage tho. If unix philosophy is "make it do one thing and do it well", it doesn't do the one thing it is supposed to do well.

I dislike overloading systemd with tools that are not related to running services but systemd does the "run services" (and auxiliary stuff like "make sure mount service uses is up before it is started" or "restart it if it dies" and hundred other things that are very service or use-case specific) very, very well and I used maybe 4 different alternatives across last 20 years

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cf100clunk 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't see how this relates to removing SysVinit support from LFS. Choice is good.

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reppap 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you entitled to the LFS developers time? They build the system they get to make into what they want.

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preisschild 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That "choice" still has to be maintained. And why spend effort when you can do the same things + more with systemd?

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cf100clunk 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Clearly there are lots of people who don't want something that does what you say systemd does. Bravo that choice is out there, but what a pity that LFS does not seem to have the resources to test future versions for SysVinit.

	▲	PunchyHamster 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		you can fork it and do it. But frankly if goal is to learn people about how Linux works, having SysV there is opposite to that goal

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nialv7 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you want to learn the system from scratch, the best way will be writing your own little init system from scratch, so you can understand how the boot sequence works. And as you make use of more and more of the advanced features of Linux, your init system will get more and more complex, and will start to resemble systemd.

If you only learn about sysvinit and stop there, you are missing large parts of how a modern Linux distro boots and manages services.

	▲	wiml 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> and will start to resemble systemd That's the point on which people differ. Even if we take as given that rc/svinit/runit/etc is not good enough (and I don't think that's been established), there are lots of directions you can go from there, with systemd just one of them.

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tapoxi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I find it funny that the anti-systemd crowd hates it because it doesn't "follow the Unix philosophy", but they tend to also hate Wayland which does and moves away from a clunky monolith (Xorg)

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bigstrat2003 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And on the other hand, I have no sympathy for the Unix philosophy. I value results, not dogma, and managing servers with systemd is far more pleasant than managing servers with sysvinit was. When a tool improves my sysadmin life as much as systemd has, I couldn't care less if it violates some purity rule to do so.