Hmmm. The source for the "FSD is safer" claim might not be wholly independent: "Tesla’s data shows that Full Self-Driving miles are twice as safe as manual driving"

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gizmo686 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would be surprised if that was what they were actually looking at. They are an established insurance company with their own data and the actuaries to analyze it. I can't imagine them doing this without at least validating a substantial drop in claims relating to FSD capable cars.

Now that they are offering this program, they should start getting much better data by being able to correlate claims with actual FSD usage. They might be viewing this program partially as a data acquisition project to help them insure autonomous vehicles more broadly in the future.

	▲	Veserv 10 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		They are a grossly unprofitable insurance company. Your actuaries can undervalue risk to the point you are losing money on every claim and still achieve that. In fact, Tesla Insurance, the people who already have direct access to the data already loses money on every claim [1]. [1] https://peakd.com/tesla/@newageinv/teslas-push-into-insuranc...
	▲	redanddead 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> They might be viewing this program partially as a data acquisition project to help them insure autonomous vehicles more broadly in the future What do you mean?

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ex-aws-dude 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't really matter because the insurance company itself will learn if that is correct or not when the claims start coming in

Its their own bet to make

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ErroneousBosh 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> "Tesla’s data shows that Full Self-Driving miles are twice as safe as manual driving"

Teslas only do FSD on motorways where you tend to have far fewer accidents per mile.

Also, they switch to manual driving if they can't cope, and because the driver isn't paying attention this usually results in a crash. But hey, it's in manual driving, not FSD, so they get to claim FSD is safer.

FSD is not and never will be safer than a human driver.

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Onavo 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> Teslas only do FSD on motorways where you tend to have far fewer accidents per mile.

They have been end to end street level for the past two years.

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ErroneousBosh 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Not successfully.

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qwerpy 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Successful enough for me and many other people I know. End to end from my house to grocery store, kids schools, friends houses, etc. Multiple times per day for the past year.

It’s not perfect but I’d consider it a smashing success for something I rely on for safely transporting my family every day.

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ErroneousBosh 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I wouldn't feel safe in one. I've seen how they drive, and I've had a brief shot of a car with FSD.

They are not safe and they will never be safe.

	▲	rogerrogerr 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> They are not safe Debatable, but you won't be convinced. > they will never be safe. Define safe? Would be interested to see you provide a benchmark that is reasonable, and lock it in now so we can see if this statement is falsified in the future.
	▲	mavhc 6 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		If they're not safe then why does the data show they're safer than humans? Why will they never be safe? Also can you define safe?