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Fervicus 5 hours ago

How many man hours and how much money have we wasted over security theater at airports? Has it been a worthwhile trade off?

chihuahua 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No successful terrorist attacks on planes going to/from western countries after 9/11/2001, that's a pretty good record. Maybe we can't prove that the security theater was responsible for that, but still, the only planes that were bombed after 9/11/2001 were inside Russia or going from Egypt to Russia.

hosteur 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have a rock that keeps tigers away. For 30 years I have not encountered any tigers. That’s a pretty good record.

bruce511 3 hours ago | parent [-]

To answer the parent question, no not even close.

TSA direct costs, passenger time wasted, flights missed, items confiscated.

All so no bombs on planes. But somehow also no bombs at sports events or music concerts, or on trains or subways, or courthouses or....

So the TSA is either stunningly successful or a complete waste. I'd argue a complete waste, but hey, everyone in a TSA uniform drawing a paycheck us entitled to a different opinion.

reeredfdfdf 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's just not bombs that are a danger. You really don't want anyone to set the airplane on fire either, or start shooting people or holes into the fuselage.

AFAIK America has had plenty of shootings, and probably arson attacks too over that time period.

bawolff 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Other then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Northern_Airlines_Flight... how often has anyone ever set fire to a plane (not counting bombs that caused fires). Is there even a single other example.

I agree on guns, but you can probably deal with that with much lower intensity security.

closewith 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> But somehow also no bombs at sports events or music concerts, or on trains or subways, or courthouses or....

Boston marathon? The Madrid train bombings? 7/7? Ariana Grande?

Airport security has been stunningly successful.

Fervicus an hour ago | parent [-]

But we don't have intense security checks at concerts, trains, or at marathon events as a result, do we?

lagniappe an hour ago | parent [-]

I don't know where you live, but where I live, we do.

Fervicus 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

I've traveled all over Europe and North America and have taken a lot of trains. Not once did I have to remove my shoe, scan my baggage, or had any kind of liquid restrictions.

matwood 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Concerts and things like sporting events in the US typically require any bags to be clear and only be of a certain size. They may also be checked. No outside liquids are typically allowed (mainly to avoid alcohol). Usually people are at least wanded to prevent weapons, but sometimes metal detectors are setup.

lagniappe 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

You're very fortunate, you'll have to teach us your ways some day

bradleybuda 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Last I checked, in the US there has not been a single instance of the TSA detecting and preventing a terror attack in its 25 year history.

And presumably they wouldn’t be shy about telling us if they had.

bawolff 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I assume they have some deterent value.

You can tell because some of the failed bombings (like the shoe bomber) failed because their plans were stupid to get around security, and if security wasn't there they would probably have used a normal bomb and succeeded

victorbjorklund an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have no idea if it has worked or not but you got to count deterrence too. If you have a lock and alarm in your house it might deter someone from even trying to break in. Of course you could never know if the deterrence worked (only attempts would be noticeable)

palata an hour ago | parent [-]

I don't think that the question is really "removing all checks". It's rather "are all those expensive machines necessary?".

HaZeust 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, they do find a ton of guns and ammunition. I wouldn't be so sure.

bawolff 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bombings are pretty rare. The last succesful plane bombing of a plane departing from the united states that killed people was in 1962.

reisse 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is somewhat false? There were four other bombings, two in western countries (specifically EU->US flights). None of these two were successful in terms of "the plane was downed", but bombs were carried on a plane and exploded, and security didn't stop that.

22 December 2001, American Airlines Flight 63 7 May 2002, China Northern Flight 6136 25 December 2009, Northwest Airlines Flight 253 2 February 2016, Daallo Airlines Flight 159

hdgvhicv 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ok so cockpit door was locked and thus nobody can hijack plane.

Of course even that has killed people.

prmoustache 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I thonk it has more to do with process and pilot crew closing their door.

none2585 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is an asinine take - it literally has nothing to do with the theater we deal with at the airports in America

abenga 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What's the actual reason then?

SCdF 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Locking the door of the cockpit, actual on the ground policing in terms of monitoring terror cells.

no_wizard 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Better cooperation between intelligence and law enforcement agencies

Stevvo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends who the 'we' is. It worked out great for the airports; increased drink sales means increased rent for airport shops.

vjvjvjvjghv 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No hijacked planes, no terror attacks?

none2585 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There's also been none since I washed my hair this morning - certainly must be related!!

sealeck 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Clever

vjvjvjvjghv 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not really….

runarberg 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don‘t think that is true at all. There have been numerous hijacked planes since 9/11 including two in the USA just this decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

Plane hijacking has been on its way out anyway after the turmoil of the 1970s. And that has probably more to do with a) the relative political stability of the post cold war period, and b) a general sense that airplane hijacking isn’t actually that likely to advance your political goals. If you read the list above, you see people hijacking planes all kinds of dumb methods, hardly any of them involves carrying an actual bomb onto the plane.

bawolff an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> a) the relative political stability of the post cold war period

Most plane hijackings/bombings were middle east related (e.g. linked to one of Palestinian liberation, al-qaeda, or isis)

Not sure i'd call that a stable region of the world, especially now. Perhaps though the people involved just realized it was an ineffective strategy.

mcmoor 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There has been way less terrorism in general too. I'm always curious whether the war on terrorism is that effective, or there's major socioeconomic factor that matters most (or there's just less lead in the air).

justsomehnguy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's not "less terrorism".

Back in the day you needed to get onto TV and into newspaper headlines to get any attentions besides your neighbours. Today you can do that with a Facebook page and send your ideas worldwide.

And that works the back way too: instead of the news of bombing in some remote country you can't even find on the map you can get a funny cat videos to fill in.