Any time I see people say "I don't see why I should care about my privacy, I've got nothing to hide" I think about how badly things can go if the wrong people end up in positions of power.

The classic example here is what happens when someone is being stalked by an abusive ex-partner who works in law enforcement and has access to those databases.

This ICE stuff is that scaled up to a multi-billion dollar federal agency with, apparently, no accountability for following the law at all.

> This ICE stuff is that scaled up to a multi-billion dollar federal agency with, apparently, no accountability for following the law at all.

Apparently any time they do anything horrifying, they will just declare that victim as a "terrorist" or something, and their sycophantic supporters will happily agree.

What I find amusing is that when the Snowden leaks happened and I would discuss it, when I said something like "let's pretend for a moment that we can't trust every single person in the government", and I would usually get an agreeable laugh.

But using these same arguments with ICE + Palantir, these same people will say something like "ICE IS ONLY DEPORTING THE CRIMINALS YOU JUST WANT OPEN BORDERS!!!". People's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

It reminds me of when Eric Schmidt, then CEO of google, tried that argument about people's worry of google collecting so much personal data. Some media outlet then published a bunch of personal information about Schmidt they had gathered using only google searches, including where he lives, his salary, his political donations, and where his kids went to school. Schmidt was not amused.

Also always keep in mind that what is legal today might be illegal tomorrow. This includes things like your ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation and much more.

You don't know today on which side of legality you will be in 10 years, even if your intentions are harmless.

> The classic example here is what happens when someone is being stalked by an abusive ex-partner who works in law enforcement and has access to those databases.

Which has literally happened already for anyone who thinks “there’s controls in place for that sort of thing”. That’s with (generally) good faith actors in power. What do you think can and will happen when people who think democracy and the constitution are unnecessary end up in control…

https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/nsa-snooping/

> I've got nothing to hide.

Some retorts for people swayed by that argument:

"Can we put a camera in your bathroom?"

"Let's send your mom all your text messages."

"Ain't nothin' in my pockets, but I'd rather you didn't check."

"Shall we live-stream your next doctor's appointment?"

"May I watch you enter your PIN at the ATM?"

"How about you post your credit card number on reddit?"

"Care to read your high-school diary on open mic night?"

The true problem is that it happens no matter who is in charge. It's like that old phrase about weapons that are invented are going to be used at some point. The same thing has turned out to be true for intelligence tools. And the worst part is that the tools have become so capable, that malicious intent isn't even required anymore for privacy to be infringed.

It doesn't even need malicious intent. If nobody rational is monitoring it, all it will take is a bad datapoint or hallucination for your door to get kicked in by mistake.

This is the moment for Europe to show that you can do gov and business differently. If they get their s** together and actually present a viable alternative.

The simple response to that line of thinking is: "you don't choose what the government uses against you"

For any piece of data that exists, the government effectively has access to it through court orders or backdoors. Either way, it can and will be used against you.

> The classic example here is what happens when someone is being stalked by an abusive ex-partner who works in law enforcement and has access to those databases.

There’s a world of difference between a government using legally collected data for multiple purposes and an individual abusing their position purely for personal reasons.

For me, the angle is a bit different. I want privacy, but I also sense that the people who are really good at this (like Plantir) have so much proxy information available that individual steps to protect privacy are pretty much worthless.

To me, this is a problem that can only be solved at the government/regulatory level.

Even if you trust the intentions of whoever you're giving your data to, you may not trust their ability to keep it safe from data breaches. Those happen all the time.

I don’t agree. I’m fine ICE can see my data, as long as there are process enforced to track those usage and I have a right to fight back for their misuse.

Problem today is ICE has no accountability of misuse data/violence, not they have means to data/violence.

Respect, thank you for using your voice.

The business is equally blamed. But ever aince Uber showed up and violated laws in all jurisdictions, we always focus on the cops and not the criminals.

The "they look like us" fallacy is so deep in this.

Unfortunately, this also means that everyone is taking a risk when they participate in the US census.

https://exhibits.lib.berkeley.edu/spotlight/census/feature/j...

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/26/636107892/some-japanese-ameri...

The same people saying that will also defend police wearing masks, hiding badges, and shutting off body cameras. They are not participating in discussions with the same values (truth, integrity) that you have. Logic does not work on people who believe Calvinistic predestination is the right model for society.

Are you against income tax?

Are you against business registration?

All of these are subject to the similar issues with the stalker ex abusing a position of power?

> how badly things can go if the wrong people end up in positions of power

This is why there shouldn’t be any organization that has that much power.

Full stop.

What you described is the whole raison dêtre of Anarchism; irrespective of whether you think there’s an alternative or not*

“No gods No Masters” isn’t just a slogan it’s a demand

*my personal view is that there is no possible stable human organization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_symbolism#No_gods,_n...

"I've got nothing to hide" is another way of saying "I don't have friends that trust me," which is another way of saying" I don't have friends."

ICE and DHS already were bloated and somehow grew from not existing 25 years ago to a $100 billion budget. Then the big Trump spending bill added another $200 billion to their budget. And there’s no accountability for who gets that money - it’s all friends and donors and members of the Trump family.

They have money for this grift of epic scale but complain about some tiny alleged Somalian fraud to distract the gullible MAGA base. And of course there is somehow not enough money for things people actually need like healthcare.

> This ICE stuff is that scaled up to a multi-billion dollar federal agency with, apparently, no accountability for following the law at all.

But why is ICE needed? Why did Obama give Tom Homan a medal for the 3.1 million illegals ICE deported under Obama?

Shall we have a talk about the official estimated number by the US Congress of 7 million illegals (other numbers talk about 12 but 7 is the official estimate by US Congress) that entered the US under Biden?

Where is the accountability for the people who organized this invasion? Buses and planes, often operating at night, then methodically placing these illegal migrants all over the country.

Do people realize that if the borders hadn't been wide open, there'd be no need to deport millions?

I both care about my privacy, have nothing to hide (but still care about my privacy) and want every single illegal to be sent back.

And speaking about accountability for following the law: what about the accountability for those who didn't respect the immigration laws and illegally entered the country?

The reasoning is always one-sided. For example: where were the dems manifesting and protesting about the murder of Laken Riley or the "take that white girl" murder of the Ukrainian and actual war refugee Iryna Zarutska?

But no: it's always "evil far right unaccountable republicans / peaceful holier than thou dems".

It's plain sickening.