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monegator 3 hours ago

> The biggest surprise to me with all this low-quality contribution spam is how little shame people apparently have.

ever had a client second guess you by replying you a screenshot from GPT?

ever asked anything in a public group only to have a complete moron replying you with a screenshot from GPT or - at least a bit of effor there - a copy/paste of the wall of text?

no, people have no shame. they have a need for a little bit of (borrowed) self importance and validation.

Which is why i applaud every code of conduct that has public ridicule as punishment for wasting everybody's time

Sharlin 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Problem is people seriously believe that whatever GPT tells them must be true, because… I don't even know. Just because it sounds self-confident and authoritative? Because computers are supposed to not make mistakes? Because talking computers in science fiction do not make mistakes like that? The fact that LLMs ended up having this particular failure mode, out of all possible failure modes, is incredibly unfortunate and detrimental to the society.

pera 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Last year I had to deal with a contractor who sincerely believed that a very popular library had some issue because it was erroring when parsing a chatgpt generated json... I'm still shocked, this is seriously scary

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"SELECT isn't broken" isn't a new advice, and it exists for a reason.

tveita 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think people's attitude would be better calibrated to reality if LLM providers were legally required to call their service "a random drunk guy on the subway"

E.g.

"A random drunk guy on the subway suggested that this wouldn't be a problem if we were running the latest SOL server version" "Huh, I guess that's worth testing"

Suzuran 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My boss says it's because they are backed by trillion dollar companies and the companies would face dire legal threats if they did not ensure the correctness of AI output.

buggy6257 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Your boss sounds hilarious naive to how the world works.

Suzuran 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In a lot of ways he is, despite witnessing a lot of how the sausage is made directly. Honestly, I think at at least half of it is wanting to convince himself that the world still functions in ways that make sense to him rather than admit that it's mostly grifters grifting all the way down.

nathanaldensr 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The high-trust Boomer brain cannot comprehend the actual low-trust society of grifters in which we live.

an hour ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a good heuristic, and it's how most things in life operate. It's the reason you can just buy food in stores without any worry that it might hurt you[0] - there's potential for million ${local currency} fines, lawsuits, customer loss and jail time serving as strong incentive for food manufacturers and vendors to not fuck this up. The same is the case with drugs, utilities, car safety and other important aspects of life.

So their boss may be naive, but not hilariously so - because that is, in fact, how the world works[1]! And as a boss, they probably have some understanding of it.

The thing they miss is that AI fundamentally[2] cannot provide this kind of "correct" output, and more importantly, that the "trillion dollar companies" not only don't guarantee that, they actually explicitly inform everyone everywhere, including in the UI, that the output may be incorrect.

So it's mostly failure to pay attention and realize they're dealing with an exception to the rule.

--

[0] - Actually hurt you, I'm ignoring all the fitness/healthy eating fads and "ultraprocessed food" bullshit.

[1] - On a related note, it's also something security people often don't get: real world security relies on being connected - via contracts and laws and institutions - to "men with guns". It's not perfect, but scales better.

[2] - Because LLMs are not databases, but - to a first-order approximation - little people on a chip!

miki123211 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

> [1]

Cybersecurity is also an exception here.

"men with guns" only work for cases where the criminal must be in the jurisdiction of the crime for the crime to have occurred.

If you rob a bank in London, you must be in London, and the British police can catch you. If you rob a bank somebody else, the British police doesn't care. If you hack a bank in London though, you may very well be in North Korea.

rsynnott 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And just how many rs does your boss think are in strawberry?

breakingcups 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If only every LLM-shop out there would put disclaimers on their page that they hope absolve them of the responsibility of correctness, so that your boss could make up his own mind... Oh wait.

pjc50 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Billions of dollars of marketing have been spent to enable them to believe that, in order to justify the trillions of investment. Why would you invest a trillion dollars in a machine that occasionally randomly gave wrong answers?

anon_anon12 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People's trust on LLM imo stems from the lack of awareness of AI hallucinating. Hallucination benchmarks are often hidden or talked about hastily in marketing videos.

wpietri 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think it's better to say that LLMs only hallucinate. All the text they produce is entirely unverified. Humans are the ones reading the text and constructing meaning.

cess11 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

IgorPartola 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To quote Luke Skywalker: Amazing. Every word of what you just said is wrong.

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Which is why I keep saying that anthropomorphizing LLMs gives you good high-order intuitions about them, and should not be discouraged.

Consider: GP would've been much more correct if they said "It's just a person on a chip." Still wrong, but much less, in qualitative fashion, than they are now.

NoGravitas 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Just a weird little guy.

dematz 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

A hungry ghost trapped in a jar (https://bsky.app/profile/hikikomorphism.bsky.social/post/3lw...)

KronisLV 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It's just a database. There is no difference in a technical sense between "hallucination" and whatever else you imagine.

It's like a JPEG. Except instead of lossy compression on images that give you a pixel soup that only vaguely resembles the original if you're resource bound (and even modern SOTA models are when it comes to LLMs), instead you get stuff that looks more or less correct but just isn't.

derrida 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This comes from not having a specific area or understanding, if you ask it about an area you know well, you'll see.

the_af 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I get what you're saying but I think it's wrong (I also think it's wrong when people say "well, people used to complain about calculators...").

An LLM chatbot is not like querying a database. Postgres doesn't have a human-like interface. Querying SQL is highly technical, when you get nonsensical results out of it (which is most often than not) you immediately suspect the JOIN you wrote or whatever. There's no "confident vibe" in results spat out by the DB engine.

Interacting with a chat bot is highly non-technical. The chat bot seems to many people like a highly competent person-like robot that knows everything, and it knows it with a high degree of confidence too.

So it makes sense to talk about "hallucinations", even though it's a flawed analogy.

I think the mistake people make when interacting with LLMs is similar to what they do when they read/watch the news: "well, they said so on the news, so it must be true."

Cthulhu_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't remember exactly who said it, but at one point I read a good take - people trust these chatbots because there's big companies and billions behind them, surely big companies test and verify their stuff thoroughly?

But (as someone else described), GPTs and other current-day LLMs are probabilistic. But 99% of what they produce seems feasible enough.

pousada 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think in science fiction it’s one of the most common themes for the talking computer to be utterly horribly wrong, often resulting in complete annihilation of all life on earth.

Unless I have been reading very different science fiction I think it’s definitely not that.

I think it’s more the confidence and seeming plausibility of LLM answers

rsynnott 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

In terms of mass exposure, you're probably talking things like Cmdr Data from Star Trek, who was very much on the 'infallible' end of the fictional AI spectrum.

oneeyedpigeon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People are literally taking Black Mirror storylines and trying to manifest them. I think they did a `s/dys/u/` and don't know how to undo it...

Sharlin 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, but this failure mode is not that. "AI will malfunction and doom us all" is pretty far from "AI will malfunction by sometimes confabulating stuff".

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The stories I read had computers being utterly horribly right, which resulted in attempts (sometimes successful) at annihilate humanity.

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This sounds a bit like the "Asking vs. Guessing culture" discussion on the front page yesterday. With the "Guesser" being GP who's front-loading extra investigation, debugging and maintenance work so the project maintainers don't have to do it, and with the "Asker" being the client from your example, pasting the submission to ChatGPT and forwarding its response.

slfreference an hour ago | parent [-]

>> In Guess Culture, you avoid putting a request into words unless you're pretty sure the answer will be yes. Guess Culture depends on a tight net of shared expectations. A key skill is putting out delicate feelers. If you do this with enough subtlety, you won't even have to make the request directly; you'll get an offer. Even then, the offer may be genuine or pro forma; it takes yet more skill and delicacy to discern whether you should accept.

delicate feelers is like octopus arms

ncruces an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've also had the opposite.

I raise an issue or PR after carefully reviewing someone else's open source code.

They ask Claude to answer me; neither them nor Claude understood the issue.

Well, at least it's their repo, they can do whatever.

monooso 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not OP, but I don't consider these the same thing.

The client in your example isn't a (presumably) professional developer, submitting code to a public repository, inviting the scrutiny of fellow professionals and potential future clients or employers.

monegator 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I consider them to be the same attitude. Machine made it / Machine said it. It must be right, you must be wrong.

They are sure they know better because they get a yes man doing their job for them.

positive-spite 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Didn't happen to me yet.

I'm not looking forward to it...

meindnoch 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Our CEO chiming in on a technical discussion between engineers: by the way, this is what Claude says: *some completely made-up bullshit*

javcasas an hour ago | parent [-]

Hi CEO, thanks for the input. Next time that we have a discussion, we will ask Claude instead of discussing with who wrote the offending code.

Aeolun 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Random people don’t do this. Your boss however…