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gryfft 5 hours ago

This is directly relevant to my wife's and my reading of the David Tennant & Olivia Coleman vehicle Broadchurch.

David Tennant's character is notably very bad at his job; that's why he got exiled to a backwater town. He bungled his last case so badly it made national news. In an American police procedural, we would either have some mitigating explanation for his failure, or at least some gritty vice or personal demon that was the real reason he got demoted.

In Broadchurch, Tennant's character just sucks at his job. Every episode of the show conforms to a formula where he gets suspicious of one of the other characters in the show and we spend the episode wasting time while it's finally determined that the suspect of the week is actually innocent. I have to say, it makes for entertaining television. It also resulted in my wife and I chorusing aloud, every episode, "he's SO BAD at his job!!"

(Minor Broadchurch spoilers) At the end when he finally catches the big bad, it's not because of anything he did. A coincidence and some carelessness on the part of the big bad lead to the mystery being solved. Also, every other character on the show had already been ruled out.

Since watching it we've kept a lookout for protagonists who embody the "everyman in way over his head who accomplished virtually nothing himself" archetype. It's fun to know Adams held forth on the very subject.

arethuza 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"David Tennant's character is notably very bad at his job; that's why he got exiled to a backwater town."

Worth noting that in Hot Fuzz (also featuring Olivia Coleman!) the main character is exiled to a rural location for being too good at his job.

jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That movie is a long series of spoofs nicely spliced together to form a story. To the point that it even works in the reverse, you've seen Hot Fuzz and then years later you watch some other movie and suddenly you realize that's where they got it.

nebula8804 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Warms my heart to see fellow Edgar Wright fans here. Felt bad about his recent film results. I waited years for that. :/

Insanity 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

She’s also in Peep Show, which to this day is my favourite British television series.

It’s such a good piece of dark comedy.

HPsquared 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And that's a show about people who are bad at relationships.

Insanity 3 hours ago | parent [-]

True! Two “losers” as protagonists

KineticLensman an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Every episode of the show conforms to a formula where he gets suspicious of one of the other characters in the show and we spend the episode wasting time while it's finally determined that the suspect of the week is actually innocent.

Something like this applies in the UK Midsomer Murders. Specifically, in the episodes where one of the suspects has a prior criminal record, they always get grief from Inspector Barnaby's current sidekick but are then proven innocent of the current crime. However, if an old police colleague from Barnaby's past offers to help, they are always guilty of something.

ksymph an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hold on, wasn't the flak he got for the case before the show started actually because he was covering for his wife (who was also working on the case)? She was having an affair and left the evidence in her car where it was stolen. He didn't say anything so their daughter wouldn't know, and took the fall for the case's failure, even though it wasn't his fault at all.

I didn't quite get the same read on the show you did. It seemed like the dynamic was that Olivia Coleman couldn't imagine anyone she knew being the killer, contrasted against Tennant being aggressively willing to suspect anyone, which is how they were able to rule the various suspects out.

gryfft 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's admittedly been years since I saw it; I don't remember the entire mitigating bit about covering for his wife, but a lot went on in that series finale and I've had covid a few times since.

I like your read on their dynamic as foils to each other; I'll have to give it another watch with your read in mind.

tartuffe78 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's very explicitly explained in the finale.

gryfft 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Alas, my think-meat is fallible and forgetful. I shall have to refresh myself and give it another watch.

mjd 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“In an American police procedural, we would either have…”

In the first minutes of the American show “Keen Eddie”, the titular character bungles a project so badly that he is exiled to London.

It unfortunately lasted only one season.

d-us-vb 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Today I learned that I would make a terrible detective!

When I watched Broadchurch with my family, I thought he was doing a fine job at getting to the bottom of the case. Goes to show much crime drama I watch.

I see now that Tennant's character's actions are a plot device to reveal the drama amongst the other characters, not the workings of a good detective.

pjc50 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This very good description makes it sound like a comedy, which it absolutely isn't, although I note that Olivia Colman got her break in dark comedy Peep Show.

jsolson 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's so far from comedy that I couldn't make it through the series. When it comes up in conversation, I tend to describe it as "grief porn."

gryfft 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ah, I should have made that clear, yes. We derived some unintended humor from the mismatch in cultural expectations, but Broadchurch is as serious as a heart attack.

(Didn't stop me and my wife from yelling MELLAR!! at each other across the house for weeks afterward.)*

*(He yells his partner Miller's name a lot in his Scottish accent.)

IAmBroom 3 hours ago | parent [-]

"MELLAH!"

There is no 'r' in Miller.

gryfft 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

Quite right; please forgive the error in transliteration.

haritha-j 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That reminds me a lot of slow horses as well.

dclowd9901 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Slow Horses is so equal-opportunity with how it hands out ineptitude. About the only character on the show who isn't inept is Lamb (Gary Oldman), but is such a wretched character, you could actually hardly find a moment to root for him. It's fantastic.

PeterWhittaker 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'd argue that Coe is more than competent, just, you know, detached most of the time. Lamb always knows what needs be done, just never shares, and often lets things happen until what needs be done happens on its own or is inevitable.

Coe has extraordinarily high SA and makes decisions immediately. They might seem impulsive, but when he acts, it is always with forethought.

(Yeah, Coe is our favourite character.)

cryzinger 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Louisa too. Before Coe came along she was for sure the best agent of the bunch; between the two of them it's a tough call imo.

Although I think Standish might have a leg up on all of them, including (sometimes) Lamb... but I'm biased since she's my favorite :)

catlover76 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> such a wretched character, you could actually hardly find a moment to root for him.

Hmm really?

In the first couple episodes, he definitely is, but I think they level him out a bit later on so that the viewer actually ends up liking him.

In the books, he is much more consistently unlikable.

(Don't bother with the books, IMO--show is better while still hewing quite close to them).

jimbokun 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Slough House denizens screw up in blatant, over the top ways. While the Park screw up in ways that leave geopolitical consequences festering for years or decades while being good at covering their own asses.

The plot is generally some evil, corrupt actions the Park took in the past are coming home to roost and only the bumbling losers in Slough House can fix it (kind of, eventually, in a "at least London wasn't blown off the face of the earth" kind of way).

EtienneK 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, exactly my first thought as well. Fantastic show!

catlover76 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

biophysboy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The game Disco Elysium is kind of like this. Just know that the game is 99% reading and rolling dice.

Sharlin 3 hours ago | parent [-]

…sort of, but the game does ultimately make clear that for all his faults, the protagonist is (and was, before the amnesia) exceedingly good at what he does.

biophysboy 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

Ha! Not the way I played him as a character :)

ravishi 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That sounds awfully similar to our own reading of Department Q. I'll watch it too.

bee_rider 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Department Q is a weird one because it goes with the trope of the acerbic hyper-competent guy, but then… actually, I don’t recall, is he actually incompetent? Or does he just not quite live up to his over-confidence.

Also it is sometimes hard with these detective shows because the screenwriters might want a character to be hyper-competent, but they are people too, limited in their ability to portray super-competent abilities. This can result in characters lucking their way into clues.

danaris 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like a much-more-fleshed-out version of Inspector Gadget!

IAmBroom 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My take is quite different. EVERYONE in Broadchurch is at least nearly-criminally incompetent.

"Ooh, I'm an investigative detective in a homicide. I think I'll forget myself and beat up somebody in lockup!"

"What's that, evidence? I think I'll withhold it for minor personal reasons."

"Hey, there's a pedophile investigation going on. I think I'll lie about my 'alone time' with a teenage boy to EVERYONE, just to avoid arousing suspicion..."

Tennant's advantage is that, in season one, he's not emotionally tied up in this completely tangled small town. He's got some professional competencies over Miller, but not many.