| ▲ | Ireland wants to give its cops spyware, ability to crack encrypted messages(theregister.com) |
| 85 points by jjgreen 2 hours ago | 39 comments |
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| ▲ | budududuroiu an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| Whenever these people ask for more power in order to "stop/prevent crime", there should be a bot that replies a list of times when the police didn't act to stop crime, despite having full knowledge of the crime occuring and potential to stop it from happening. EU member and supporter of Chat Control, Romania, had a massive scandal where a kidnapped 15 year old girl called emergency services multiple times to report she was being kidnapped, every single time, the operators and the police officers spoke to her in an ironic and condescending tone. It took 19 hours to locate her, by which time, she was already dead. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Alexandra_M%C4%8... |
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| ▲ | alistairSH 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Even better, in the US, the police have zero obligation to actually protect anybody from crime (unless that person is in government custody). The courts have upheld this time and again. | | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Per the DOJ, there's also this: >An officer who purposefully allows a fellow officer to violate a victim's Constitutional rights may be prosecuted for failure to intervene to stop the Constitutional violation. >To prosecute such an officer, the government must show that the defendant officer was aware of the Constitutional violation, had an opportunity to intervene, and chose not to do so. | |
| ▲ | mothballed 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Which wouldn't be so bad, if it wasn't for the fact they do have an obligation to stop anyone from protecting other people from crime (see Uvalde, where orders from above were to block parents from saving their children). | |
| ▲ | NoMoreNicksLeft 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > (unless that person is in government custody) Someone please correct me, but do they ever much bother to protect those in custody? | | |
| ▲ | freedomben a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | Generally speaking, yes. I have worked with the corrections side of law enforcement in the US and don't internationally for quite a few years at this point. The correction side is a different beast than the police side in many ways, so I definitely want to meet clear that my personal experience is limited in scope to that. However, generally speaking I have seen that the majority of corrections staff take protection very seriously. There are individual officers that can be scum, and ideally they should be bounced out of there. But realistically, it's a human problem. I've known plenty of software engineers that were cavalier with people's personal information in ways I think can be just as damaging. On the whole though, the majority of software engineers I know take protecting that information quite seriously. | |
| ▲ | JasonADrury 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They certainly seem to be willing to spend a lot to keep Luigi Mangione safe. | |
| ▲ | foxyv 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Their main method of "Protecting" people in custody has been deemed a form of torture called Solitary Confinement. |
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| ▲ | mothballed 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In some parts of the world it's well known if you actually want the police to show up, just claim there are lots of drugs or cash at the location. That will actually get the police excited since they stand to gain from it. It's not clear why the police would care someone is being raped/murdered since they cannot profit from that. Although at 15 I would not expect someone to be wise enough to the world to figure that out. | |
| ▲ | simion314 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | From my memory this case can actually be used to support spyware, I remember all the media complaining "how is it possible that the police or the secret service can't instantly locate a phone very precisely" , same when that airplane crashed and the people were calling for help but the authorities could not get the coordinates and searched for hours , the media was demanding that the police or other services have the technical ability to locate any person in distress. | | |
| ▲ | jeroenhd 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It is rather jarring to be stuck in the woods with Google Maps offering turn-by-turn navigation back home while the emergency room only gets a vague triangulated position (which might be wrong entirely if the signal gets reflected off of something). Of course these days such a system has been added. Bonus feature of the (at least American) feature: the system can be activated remotely, even if you're not actually calling in an emergency. The European ETSI spec is pretty funny, it basically comes down to sending an SMS to a Secret Number with a Secret Format containing your coordinates to prevent abuse (both can be found very easily); at least that supposedly only activates when you dial the emergency services. | |
| ▲ | budududuroiu 14 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Of course it would've been spun that way, and maybe it would've worked had it not been for the police mocking the victim in the phone logs |
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| ▲ | shevy-java an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. I never found out why this is the case, because there can be many explanations. In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. This is functional erosion of rights. I don't know of many states that counter that trend. |
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| ▲ | miroljub 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > What is strange is that this happens in several countries at the same time. Probably a coincidence that it all happens just before the World Economic Forum summit in Davos. It could be they sent the new agenda a bit earlier to allow governments to prepare themselves. | |
| ▲ | cjs_ac 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Every Western government is receiving the same briefings from its intelligence and counterintelligence agencies: these powers are needed in case the third world war starts. | | |
| ▲ | danielbln 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | They've been pushing for this stuff for ever, at least 20 years ago. | | |
| ▲ | cjs_ac 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Different countries have made on-and-off efforts over the decades, but I'm explaining why they're all doing it right now. |
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| ▲ | DetectDefect 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why is that strange? Technology's proliferation decentralizes political power nexuses, making it a near-existential threat to tyrants^Wgovernments everywhere. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | conversely >Technology's proliferation centralizes political power nexuses | | |
| ▲ | DetectDefect 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Closed-source propriety systems certainly have this effect (subjugation), but this is not the Free technology I am talking about. |
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| ▲ | pixl97 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean, because the world is connected via a large global network with instant communication. It's kind of like asking "Why did the world kind of destabilize politically during the 1910s". Massive technological change swept the world and fast travel changed the dynamics of the world. Our world has changed from one of bulky analog data (paperwork, pictures, remote places) to one where any information can be digitized and sent anywhere in the past 2 decades. This data can be stored pretty much forever. This is as much of a change as what occurred in WWI and WWII. The political dynamics of the world are completely different in the data regime. He who controls the data controls the world. This is a very difficult trend to counter, just because you decide not to control said data, doesn't mean that others aren't capturing that same data and using it against you, in which they'll take power. There is a distinct possibility that rights and ever growing capabilities of technology are fundamentally incompatible. This is going to present a growing problem for human societies. | |
| ▲ | jonathanstrange 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I believe the main reason is the current "situation" with the US. European agencies and law enforcement have relied heavily on NSA signal intelligence via low-level intelligence exchange and it has become more and more clear that this is a dangerous dependence. In a sense, the turn towards codifying and legalizing surveillance had already started with the Snowden revelations because at that time many people realized that the usual practices were basically illegal and wanted more legal certainty. At the same time, companies like Apple have increased device security a lot over the past decade. That's my take on it. I'd love to hear other explanations. It's indeed curious why so many EU countries are pushing for increased surveillance so heavily. | |
| ▲ | Ylpertnodi 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > . In general the global tendency is that the more and more digital data is there, the more and more states want to surveil people and invade onto their privacy. You found out why. |
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| ▲ | Froztnova 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Feels like we're headed back towards governments attempting to control the sharing and usage of cryptographic algorithms again. |
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| ▲ | hiprob 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Oh look, it's the copy of the UK acting up again! |
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| ▲ | zexodus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm so tired of these... Is there really no way we can make it technologically impossible for them to exfiltrate user data? |
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| ▲ | voxic11 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You can make it technologically impossible, but they can also come and arrest you just for using such technology. So its not really a technical problem, its a social/political one. | | |
| ▲ | jMyles an hour ago | parent [-] | | Sure, but then they need to send a physical person, which is expensive and impossible to scale. Making it extremely expensive is probably good enough. (Feels like we have this same discussion over and over on HN.) | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Not to mention US police are generally cowards. This is why ICE goes after construction workers instead of gang members and police are out writing speeding tickets while 50% of murders go unsolved and most strong armed robberies barely get the time of day. Just having to enter 'meat space' on unfavorable terms is enough to stop enforcement a large portion of the time. Most cops aren't of much different temperament than the middle aged mom working at the DMV. |
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| ▲ | rtkwe 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't think there's a way with a phone that people would actually be willing to use. At some point it has to be decrypted to be displayed to the user and there's always the chance there's a flaw somewhere in the stack from hardware to OS to app etc that will have a gap to exfiltrate the data. | |
| ▲ | mghackerlady an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Avoiding centralised services is generally a good start. You could also do something like encrypt any messages through PGP even if the service you're using is already "e2e encrypted" like iMessage or signal | |
| ▲ | a_paddy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The problem is they'll legislate for the providers to insert back doors, negating cryptographic hardness. | | |
| ▲ | TingPing 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | They have to make custom software illegal at some point. | | |
| ▲ | 0xTJ an hour ago | parent [-] | | Given how many of these stories have been coming out, I'm sure they're considering it. |
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| ▲ | josefritzishere an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Ireland wants to turn their police into the CIA. |
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| ▲ | hopelite an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The people who hate Europeans are hard at work again, hoping they can prevent the backlash for their evil deeds this time. |
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| ▲ | cranium_melter 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's terrible, people really gonna stand for this?? |
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| ▲ | cranium_melter 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That's terrible, people really gonna lie down for this?? |