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The Rebirth of Pennsylvania's Infamous Burning Town(atlasobscura.com)
56 points by pbshgthm 6 days ago | 25 comments
thejarren an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I grew up in Pennsylvania and have visited Centralia a few times over the years. When I was younger, I remember being able to see smoke rise from the ground, but in recent years, I haven’t seen anything almost as if the fire has subsided a bit.

Pennsylvania is filled with old coal mining towns, and most of them are in a state of decay. Towns like Pottsville, Pennsylvania have buildings crumbling down on their main streets.

If anything, I think Centralia is representative of where these other towns could be in 50 to 100 years, assuming people move to larger communities. Barring the fire under the ground, of course.

pkul 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Mildly related: In North Philadelphia there are a few blocks known as the Logan Triangle that were abandoned once it was discovered that the topsoil was not stable.

https://hiddencityphila.org/2022/06/in-limbo-logan-triangle-...

imajoredinecon 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Neat read on the whole, but was fun to see how huge the author believes Estonia is:

> When Estonia, for example, became independent of the Soviet Union, some 245 million square miles of collectivist farmlands were simply abandoned.

orsorna 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To convert that figure to a more relatable number: the surface area of the Earth is just about 197 million square miles. With such an error I'm having a hard time trusting the article content.

boothby 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Technically, if you're measuring surface area, it' important to remember that the earth is not a sphere. There's a bit of a paradox measuring shorelines: the shorter your ruler, the longer it gets, because you're able to capture more complex features. Pethaps the authors took an extremely precise measurement of the surface of Estonia, counting everything down to the sinus cavities of dogs sleeping in alleys...

closewith an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Common enough error in the US when dealing with square meters abbreviated to sq m. Only off but a factor of 2.6 million.

But yes, it does call into question the rest of the fact checking.

B1FF_PSUVM 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia Area • Total 45,335 km2 (17,504 sq mi)

Some people are just oblivious to six orders of magnitude mistakes, and then go off about "folly, mistake, calamitous hubris, neglect, and plain stupidity" ...

bryanrasmussen 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean it's sort of hard to believe anything they say.

sevenseacat 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I find the story of Centralia fascinating. I read through the entirety of Unseen Danger https://archive.org/details/unseendangertrag0000deko, marvelling how it went from something that could have been handled easily if there had been funding, to something that killed the entire town with heavy doses of politics along the way.

ejs 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I always thought it was an interesting story, drove out there one day many years ago when I lived nearby. It was a dreary day, which added to the strangeness of the place.

It's an interesting place because it's not that far from other towns, and you can drive right through it on a normal, maintained road. If you turn off and drive just a minute or two it's very different though.

themaninthedark 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I like how the guy who is most grounded in how the government and corporations work is being presented as someone who is inexplicably yearning for the a point in history where things were at their bleakest.

With nary a comment about the intention of the company who is now buying up the land.

>Those that stayed had to go to court to defend their right to live on this abandoned land, all because they wanted to keep the mineral rights to their property. So now, people like Phil assume that the government is just waiting them out. Once they’re gone, putting out the fire will be easy enough. “They’ll take all that red hot coals, but also they’re going to get that rich anthracite coal,” he told us. “And I’m sure they’ll sell that. But are the people or the relatives going to get anything? It’s very doubtful. It’ll probably go to the federal government. Or the coal baron, maybe?”

>His voice, I noticed after a while, has a peculiar kind of nostalgia for the worst times in the world.

>so when coal company Pagnotti Enterprises bought the land in 2018

shmerl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Burning garbage on top of coal mines is such a bizarre idea. What can go wrong?

krupan 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"What Flynn makes clear is that while we tend to think of human activity on the landscape as not only damaging but irreversible, this may not always be the case."

SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This is pretty obvious if you've ever watched what happens to abandoned property over a few years once nobody is maintaining it. First grass and weeds, then brambles, then trees. If it's covered in asphalt or concrete it takes longer but it still happens.

cucumber3732842 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It does't happen nearly as fast in the desert.

Vaslo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The author keeps taking jabs at “capitalism” - but let’s be honest that this could happen in any political/economic system. This cheapens the article.

pfdietz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It was done deliberately in the USSR, in a process known as Underground Coal Gasification. Oxygen and steam are injected to convert the coal to syngas (CO + H2) which is brought up to the surface. This allows exploitation of coal deposits that are not suitable for conventional mining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_coal_gasification

mc32 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mean there is this that happened in the USSRS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater so indeed it happens in socialist/communist countries too.

phyzome 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's only one explicit reference to capitalism.

Vaslo 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Also a comparison to Chernobyl (which no one would ever think they were anywhere near related.). Clearly the author wanted to communicate “something” more than the interesting takeover by nature.

phyzome an hour ago | parent [-]

I would agree that the root cause analysis of these two disasters is pretty different, and not super related to capitalism. But I don't think they were really trying to push that connection.

zzzeek 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

so how do you put that fire out? or was "So now, people like Phil assume that the government is just waiting them out. Once they’re gone, putting out the fire will be easy enough" referring to how the locals think the government is just pretending they can't fix the problem?

John23832 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You can't. The coal seam is literally smoldering.

themaninthedark 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You might be able to, however not easily like when you put out a simple structure fire.

The ground is riddled with small vents that allow oxygen in. If you were to inject a foaming agent and then flood the space you could eventually lower the temperature below the auto ignition temperature.

Might not be easy. Might not be cost effective right now.

But there is a reason that Pagnotti Enterprises bought the land and I doubt it is because they are looking at turning it into a nature reserve.

mikkupikku an hour ago | parent [-]

As far as I've been able to determine, Pagnotti Enterprises has owned land in that area for a very long time and has no apparent plans to mine there anytime soon. They got this new bit of land because the state renounced the right of way and sold it to the owners of the adjacent land. This wasn't a huge meaningful investment to Pagnotti, but they did get rid of the ruined road itself, probably because it was a tourist attraction and a lawyer said to get rid of it.