| ▲ | High-speed train collision in Spain kills at least 21(bbc.com) |
| 105 points by akyuu 9 hours ago | 50 comments |
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| ▲ | elnatro an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| The current government has been found to be cutting corners in maintaining the Cercanías commuter railway network[1]. Indeed last year some machinists had to derail a train to stop it from crashing other[2]. The former Transport Minister is jailed because of corruption in public contracts, and hiring prostitutes[3][4]. The government is doing a poor job maintaining the current railway network. [1]: https://www.eldebate.com/espana/madrid/20251119/cercanias-ma... [2]: https://www.vozpopuli.com/espana/tren-accidentado-renfe-reco... [3]: https://www.infobae.com/espana/2025/12/23/adif-altero-puntua... [4]: https://www.elespanol.com/espana/tribunales/20250412/koldo-e... |
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| ▲ | arielcostas 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Every government in Spain for the last decade or more has been cutting corners in maintaining the rail networks: high speed (where this accident happened), the conventional network and commuter rail. You failed to mention the fact our budget has been extended since 2023, that the actual track where this happened was given maintenance under a year ago (per the minister, [^1]) and the train that first derailed (Iryo's ETR1000) was last checked 4 days ago. Regarding the former Minister (Ábalos), he's awaiting trial and not yet convicted (even though, IMHO he is probably guilty), and he hasn't been in the ministry since 2021[^2] so it makes no sense to bring it up when he has been out for nearly 4.5 years now. [^1]: https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/espana/2026/01/18/osca...
[^2]: https://www.elconfidencialdigital.com/articulo/otros/jose-lu... |
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| ▲ | jonp888 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For many years the Spanish state-owned company RENFE had a monopoly on Spain's huge high speed rail network. However their high prices, inconvenient schedules and poor customer service were often criticized, and so when, to the annoyance of RENFE and many spanish politicians, additional foreign operators entered the market on the key Madrid - Barcelona route, ridership doubled whilst ticket prices halved. So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes to try and get foreign operators banned from Spanish tracks, regardless of the facts of the matter. |
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| ▲ | elnatro an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train, I wouldn’t be so fast to blame the private companies on a decaying infrastructure. There are plenty of cases of lack of maintenance in the railway network. | | |
| ▲ | Xenoamorphous 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Unless there is evidence that the accident was caused by the Iryo train I'd say the same about the railway network. We don't know what happened yet. |
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| ▲ | diegocg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Foreign operators are mandated by the EU, they can't be banned. Spain has been one of the first countries to allow foreign high speed operators (unlike other European countries that did attempt to delay their entrance as much as possible | | |
| ▲ | arielcostas 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | France, for example, has been trying to delay allowing Renfe (Spanish operator) to operate through the country as much as possible, while their public operator SNCF (branded as Ouigo) has been able to operate here since 2021. |
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| ▲ | locknitpicker an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > So I would standby for this tragedy to be used for political purposes This is an ignorant opinion. For multiple reasons. Derailing under these circumstances is a track issue, which means ADIF, the state's infrastructure maintainer, is under suspicion. Not operators, the state's infrastructure maintainer. Liberalization of the railway sector is an EU-wide mandate. It's not some whimsical slip of a single country's leadership. Years ago there was an AVE derailment in Santiago de Compostela. No one banned RENFE from the lines. |
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| ▲ | sillysaurusx 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you’re interested in this kind of thing, look up plainly difficult on youtube. He has more videos on train crashes than I’ve seen, and I’m embarrassed how many I’ve seen. Here’s one to get you started: https://youtu.be/VV2rIHEp5AM?si=sSBT9s49PqbLTGbt There are a lot of safety lessons embedded in these videos, which is why I like them. I also did a double take when I heard "semaphore"; its history goes back far longer than the ~century of software engineering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore |
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| ▲ | bigmeme 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh you silly duck! Semafor is a common word in a handful of other languages for things like traffic lights and such. I had to do a double take when I first saw it in a programming class. Also hope you’re doing well it’s been a minute since our paths crossed on gdnet. | | |
| ▲ | rob74 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | "Semaphore" is (old) Greek and means "sign (sema) bearer (phore)", and actually the meaning in railways and computing is more or less the same: in computing, a semaphore signals if a resource is in use; in railways, the resource is a segment of a railway line, and the user is a train. | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | A lot of computer terms come from trains, I’m going to cheat and use AI: Many modern computer terms have their roots in 19th-century railway operations, largely because early data processing and networking systems evolved alongside or out of the infrastructure created for railroads. Terminal: Originally defined as the end point of a railway line (circa 1888), this term was adopted in 1954 to describe a device used for communicating with a computer or the point where a conductor ends in an electrical circuit. Network: This term was first used in 1839 to describe complex, interlocking transportation systems like rivers, canals, and railways. It was later adapted for broadcasting in 1914 and for interconnected computer systems in the mid-20th century. Punched Cards: Herman Hollerith, who developed the tabulating machine (a precursor to modern computers), was inspired by railroad tickets. Conductors used "punch photographs" to mark a passenger's physical description (hair color, nose size) on their ticket to prevent fraud. Hollerith adapted this physical encoding method for data entry. Interlocking: In railroading, an interlocking is an arrangement of signals and appliances that prevents conflicting train movements (e.g., preventing two trains from entering the same track). This concept of hardware or software logic preventing "unsafe" states is fundamental to modern computing and circuit design. Bus: While often associated with vehicles, the computer "bus" (a communication system that transfers data between components) shares its etymology with the "omnibus" and the conceptual "bus" lines used in telegraphy and power distribution, which were often built alongside railway right-of-ways. Buffer: Originally a mechanical device on a railcar designed to absorb the shock of a collision, the term was adopted in computing to describe a region of memory that temporarily stores data while it is being moved from one place to another to account for differences in speed. Semaphore: Long before they were a programming construct used to control access to shared resources, semaphores were physical mechanical signals used by railways to communicate track status to locomotive engineers.
Track & Sector: On a hard drive, "tracks" and "sectors" mirror the way physical rail tracks are laid out and divided into "blocks" or segments for traffic control. | | |
| ▲ | karmakurtisaani 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Copy pasting AI vomit is like leetspeak or all caps. Should not be used in online discussion. | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I disagree, but we are all entitled to our own opinions, and I get that there are a lot of luddites on HN these days. The fact that you consider it vomit rather than useful information just says more about you than me. If there was just a wiki page on how railway terms were used in computing, I would have just linked that (search didn't turn up anything in the first few pages). |
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| ▲ | cyode 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No cause is known yet, but based on the videos, what’s the most likely reason for crashes? Bad tracks? Some human error resulting in collision? |
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| ▲ | hexbin010 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Blame game has started. Minister saying the track was renewed in May. Train operator saying the train was inspected 4 days ago. I'm in Spain currently. Very sad news. |
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| ▲ | zhfanlqeo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The train in question is a Frecciarossa 1000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000 The Italians designed it but won't run it at more than 300km/h in Italy citing local infrastructure concerns. I guess that leaves other countries to find the edge cases. I'll be interested to find out how fast it was going during the crash. |
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| ▲ | bouke 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | AnsaldoBreda did also manufacture the Fyra trains for the short-lived high-speed trains here in The Netherlands. After three trains lost parts in the first month, it was banned from operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra | |
| ▲ | singingbard 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Looks like a Frecciarossa 1000 derailed in 2020 but it was due to a manufacturer defect in a track switch replaced the night before. The defect was not caught by the manufacturer or the system operator. It was due to two crossed wires in an assembly. I know a lot more engineering goes into these trains due to the higher stakes. Japan’s high speed rail hasn’t had a fatal accident in 60 years. I’m wondering what the cause of this will turn out to be. | | |
| ▲ | rurban 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Actually the defect was detected by the operators, who installed it that night. They disabled the switch, but apparently this didn't reach the day shift. | |
| ▲ | shiroiuma 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Japan's shinkansen system has never had a fatal accident, except for one incident in 1995 where someone got killed at a station because he was caught in a door as the train departed the station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishima_Station_incident). No one has ever died in a derailing, crash, etc. |
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| ▲ | aarroyoc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Updated to 39 people now, but probably the number can still go up |
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| ▲ | utopiah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Terrible and condolences to anybody affected. For a bit of context according to the OECD 2023 Spain had ~1800 on the road during the previous year, so that's about 5/day. There are more deaths on the road in Spain in a couple of weeks than this tragic accident. Either way it's too many deaths obviously but I want to highlight what a freak event this is compared to a more popular mode of transportation. Edit : Motivation behind that clarification https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-reflect-what-we-die... read some months ago but that stuck with me. |
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| ▲ | deadbabe 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Always try to sit in seats where your back is toward the direction of motion. |
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| ▲ | bjackman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Train crashes like this are _so_ rare. It's not as safe as flying but AFAICT in rich countries it's the same rough order of magnitude in terms of danger level. I don't have data but I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all. I don't think it's a good use of mental energy to plan for a crash like this. You're better off using your brain cycles on hygiene or not losing your luggage. | | |
| ▲ | D_Alex 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >It's not as safe as flying In France and Japan, HSR has had zero fatalities in the entire period of operation. In China, HSR had AFAIR one fatal crash, with 40 fatalities. Per passenger-mile, Chinese HSR is twice as safe as US air travel. | | |
| ▲ | fredoralive an hour ago | parent [-] | | France has had one fatal crash on an LGV, but it was during initial line testing where some safety systems were bypassed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckwersheim_derailment | | |
| ▲ | littlestymaar an hour ago | parent [-] | | TIL. At first, when seeing it was in 2015 I was extremely surprised I didn't heard about it at the time. Then I saw the date: Nov 14th 2015, just the day after the ISIS terror attacks in Paris, France's 9/11. Of course we barely heard about a train crash at that time… | | |
| ▲ | pjerem an hour ago | parent [-] | | I remember this day because I worked in a company that made software for train networks. It did briefly made the news but not for long due to the terror attacks and also there wasn’t any passenger on this train, it was a train testing. In fact the story is even more tragic when you know that the day before, they also were too fast in the same turn and in the records you hear something like « few, that was close, better take care next time ». However, for sure this crash should have never happened but it only happened because they were testing the limits of both the train and the track. It’s literally like a test pilot crashing an airplane while testing all the limits : it should never happen but they are still there for it not to happen in commercial flights. |
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| ▲ | SkiFire13 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I don't have data Most railway deaths in the EU are due to unauthorized people on the tracks or due to crossings. The actual number of passengers deaths has been really low in the past years. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... | |
| ▲ | throw310822 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It's not as safe as flying In the EU it's safer than flying, with 0.5 deaths per 100 billion km/ passenger vs 3 deaths per 100 billion kms/ passenger. However, since an airplane flies at, let's say, six times the average speed of a train, the actual probability of dying during a 1-hour trip is almost 40 times more on a plane than on a train. | |
| ▲ | sillysaurusx 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply. Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards. > I would imagine crashes on these high speed lines (which always seem to be run at a higher level of professionalism than the general networks) are rarest of all If this crash is anything like the other ones, you might be surprised. Safety complacency tends to cause maintenance failures. Plus the low speed lines are less deadly since the total energy is proportional to velocity squared, and v is low. In other words, it might be more helpful to look at it as "if they’re run at a higher level of standards, it’s because they have to be". Statistically you’re probably right, but considering how many brain cycles we waste on non-essentials, it’s just as fun to waste them on this. That way you can start a nerdy conversation with your travel companions, and they can learn to travel without you next time. | | |
| ▲ | crote 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Plus the low speed lines are less deadly since the total energy is proportional to velocity squared, and v is low. You're forgetting about the probability of a crash. The vast majority of train crashes is due to an impact with a vehicle on a railway crossing. However, high-speed rail is grade separated, so it doesn't have railway crossings, which means the main cause of crashes is fundamentally impossible. In other words: Regular rail has a high rate of crashes (with a small number of fatalities each) due to car/truck drivers screwing up. High-speed rail has a low rate of crashes (with a large-ish number of fatalities each) due to catastrophic failure of track & train equipment. | |
| ▲ | lxgr 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Zero-risk bias at work. If it’s actually fun for you, don’t let anyone stop you, but I wouldn’t go as far as making it a confident general recommendation. | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Brain cycles aren’t a limited supply. Sure they are. > Besides, you’ll get to feel a nice jolt of serotonin when you remember to sit backwards. I can also get that by remembering that I'm conquering a superstition and fitting my behavior closer to real risks. |
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| ▲ | mitthrowaway2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I feel like airplanes should be designed this way. Outside of takeoff and landing it would be pretty hard to even notice the difference, once you're seated. | | |
| ▲ | whatevaa an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | C5 Galaxy (US military jumbo cargo plane) has a passenger compartment with rear facing seats. | |
| ▲ | cromulent 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | At least BEA airliners used to have quite a few backward facing seats, up to half the plane. However, there were a number of problems - people didn't like sitting in them, people didn't like hearing that their seat wasn't as safe as the others, you can't get as many rows in unless you turn them all backwards, and the structure needs to be designed differently so then you need more spares. |
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| ▲ | xlbuttplug2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Huh. I'd never thought of this. If that is actually meaningfully beneficial, I wonder if they'd design self driving cars with the seats facing backwards, given there's no longer a necessity to look at the road. (edit: I guess it's more of no-brainer on a train/bus where you don't have a seat belt) | | |
| ▲ | keyle 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not the author, but I think there was some research and it's indeed better for you if you have head support, to be facing back towards the front. If prevents a whole range of injuries, from your neck, to becoming a projectile yourself. But it's really theoretical, and does not account for the passenger in front of you headed head-first into your throat. PS: I laughed hard that xlbuttplug2 is answering to deadbabe. The internet lives! | | |
| ▲ | raaron773 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Interesting. I didnt know this, i always get motiom sickness if i sit facing the opposite direction. | |
| ▲ | rooo999 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not sure what kind of cars you drive but in mine all the seats face the same direction. Why would they change that when making it safer? | | |
| ▲ | denkmoon 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Consider the "booth seats" in trains and busses. So people can chat etc facing each other. If you've got a waymo with your friends why wouldn't you want the seats facing each other so you can be social, excluding this safety factor. |
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| ▲ | 0xfaded 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Disclaimer I work for Zoox, but here is us crash testing https://youtu.be/597C9OwV0o4 | | |
| ▲ | deadbolt 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I enjoyed watching that - though it wasn't really related to the seating direction, specifically. Are you one of the safety engineers? Have you discovered anything which isn't included in normal safety tests which should be? |
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| ▲ | dtech 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's incredibly beneficial. However many people dislike it and want to be facing the direction they are moving in, so best case is probably a train-style 4-seater. Which 2 seats facing forward and 2 backwards. | |
| ▲ | radicaldreamer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Infant car seats face backwards, they recommend backwards facing for a long as possible (until the kid is too big to fit comfortably in a backwards facing position). |
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| ▲ | gitaarik an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or sit in the back of the train rather than the front | | |
| ▲ | cyberpunk 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It was the rear carriage which derailed | | |
| ▲ | pantulis 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | ... but it seems most casualties in this accident are the passengers in the first carriages of the second train. You never know. |
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