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AbstractH24 8 hours ago

Why is polymarket any more or less dangerous than NFTs or naked option trading?

Fool and his money are quickly separated…

skippyboxedhero 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because it is gambling.

NFTs have zero value but people seem to derive non-monetary value from them. Naked option trading is a form of gambling (as well as risk management) and, as a result, it is regulated.

Polymarket is a "financial investment" for regulatory purposes but is gambling, there is no legitimate risk management reason. As a result, there is massive scope for harm because it is gambling without any of the gambling regulations that exist in the US.

People on this site appear to be unaware that gambling is regulated where legal. I will give you an example: Polymarket do not comply with state regulator's exclusion/no market lists. This is immoral. Gambling companies should not take bets from users who have gambling problems, they should not market to them.

Offshore unregulated books will often market themselves to addicts saying that they do not comply with regulator's exclusion lists...this is an onshore book operating in Lexington Avenue New York, not out of a shed with a pig sty in Curaco. It is unbelievable at many levels.

woah 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> state regulator's exclusion/no market lists

I'm not familiar, but this sounds like lists of people who are not allowed to gamble? Do stockbrokers abide by these?

dh2022 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The article’s point was not that Polymarket is the problem-the point is validating and advertising Polymarket on national news outlets will have ugly consequences.

microtonal 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, once it's on television, it is similar to polling, which can influence elections because people like to vote for the winner. However, in this case it's even worse, because someone with deep pockets can influence the predictions.

dh2022 7 hours ago | parent [-]

But polling is still scientific and harder to manipulate than the betting markets. All of this is covered in th article. You should read it-it is a good article.

microtonal 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

harder to manipulate than the betting markets.

Sorry, that was what I meant to imply with the second half of my comment. Still, in my country there have been debates about whether publishing polls shouldn't be forbidden n weeks or days before the election (currently publishing polls and campaigning is only forbidden on election day).

stickfigure 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The solution is baked into the problem. If prediction markets become generally embraced by the public (mentioning them on CNN is part of that evolution) then they will be much harder to manipulate. Size matters.

Imustaskforhelp an hour ago | parent [-]

You are assuming everyone stay rational & this becomes a pre-election itself (like poll) but it can change and multiple reasons

You got to give even a 1000$ or something in this bet, you are gonna be so vocal about support, manipulation of data to convince unconvinced voters to join you or other details

The unconvinced voters are simply gonna bet on the voting side after sometime. For context, a third of the population in US iirc doesn't vote so what's gonna happen is that a difference of few %'s Lead could turn into something massive

And that few % can easily be rigged by an irrational actor. You are thinking 1 person = 1 vote (yes/no) but I may be wrong but how these work is in the aggregate and so a rich person can cause much more disruption within the voting system "legally" as well.

The point here is the legal part where what can end/what would end up happening is that elites around the world with irrational money can basically get political bases & favours established around the world for their purposes

Suppose an election is at 49 A / 51 B but now a rich guy contacted A and said to invest x$ to now make the odds 51 A / 49 B and then this news gets to twitter or any platform and now people get false news and some undecided voters might go bet on 51 itself too so now it might be 53/47 and in real voting election 51 A/49B

Some Elections are really close so I am pretty sure something like this is bound to happen sooner than later

MuffinFlavored 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> the point is validating and advertising Polymarket on national news outlets will have ugly consequences.

Coinbase

Robinhood

DraftKings

FanDuel

Arainach 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Giving credence and advertisement to all of those has caused huge societal problems. Sports Betting is a huge problem.

margalabargala 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, all of those are equally problematic.

Polymarket here is one example among the companies causing the problem. Legislation that addresses the problem should affect all the listed companies and more, not just Polymarket.

nemomarx 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Marketed to a broader audience with more users, like sports betting?

And to be fair options trading used to be pretty limited in users too, until apps like robinhood tried to democratize it.

shimman 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Replace the word "democratize" with "unleash" and that's a far more accurate descriptor.

It's not democratic if you can't destroy it, and believe me a majority of people want to destroy it.

kelnos 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be fair, when you place bets on Polymarket, your losses are limited to the money you put up.

But if you write uncovered options, your losses are theoretically unlimited.

Agreed, though. It's bizarre that this isn't regulated exactly like gambling. Because... that's what it is.

furyofantares 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Zvi Mowshowitz has an excellent article on the devastating effects that legalizing sports betting has had: https://thezvi.substack.com/p/the-online-sports-gambling-exp...

Personally I find it sickening to see ads that say you can get rich betting on the weather. I haven't seen ads for polymarket but Kalshi's ads are absolutely predatory.

chrononaut 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Naked option trading is certainly the worst of the three from a financial risk perspective for the beginner.

Although polymarket would do the best at "attraction" towards the average uninformed consumer because the bets and how to place them are far more understandable than the various option trading strategies.

torginus 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a website where people can make bets on how certain geopolitical and public events shake out.

I used to think it's just yet another way to people with more money than sense to get their kicks.

But then I saw the true reason why the platform is terrifying - it gives people who have nontrivial amounts riding on the line a very powerful incentive to influence said events.

I have seen expertly crafted and highly convincing narratives - that I know to be false from firsthand experience - spring up inside (and presumably outside) the platform spring up on an issue. There was the thing where the ISW (a reputable military think tank) reported an Ukrainian city was captured (when in fact it wasn't) in order to win a bet.

Imagine if next time someone leaks some military intel in order to hedge a bet. Money, especially lots of it, is a very powerful motivator.

There's also no way to check and control who has insider info or has influence on the outcome (as betting against them is essentially suicide)

bmitc 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It bother lowers the threshold and increases the breadth of things that can be bet in. It's a gambling addiction nightmare.

MengerSponge 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly! Friction matters a lot.

bshaughn 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It gives people in power, wether it be the government or even an NBA ref, a vehicle to profit off of conflicts of interest / fixing games / etc...

Ive seen people point out White House press conferences do weird shit, like cut the conference 10 seconds before some polymarket prop bet of "how long will this press conference be".

Much more heinously, a few months ago right before one of Trumps asinine tariff announcements, someone took out a $300M BTC short position that was almost certainly from a WH insider.

I honestly don't care if someone loses all their money gambling, but the problem I have is how so many institutions are able to be undermined at a fundamental level do the existence of polymarket.

b65e8bee43c2ed0 7 hours ago | parent [-]

>It gives people in power, wether it be the government or even an NBA ref, a vehicle to profit off of conflicts of interest / fixing games / etc...

there is the stock market for those things, where insider trading is nigh invisible to public.

bshaughn 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I think you have completey missed my point. The stock market only allows you to trade securities, and (in theory) there is a lot of regulation and enforcement on who buys / sells stocks. Additionally, no one has the power to magically set a stock price to be a certain price on a certain date.

Polymarket all of a sudden makes it much easier to make money betting on an outcome people control. Looking at polymarket, I see bets paying 100-1 based on the number of tweets Elon makes on a given day. I see another at 100-1 on wether the US airstrikes Iran today with $66m riding on it. All of a sudden theres an incentive of a life changing amount of money for goons in the whitehouse to strike Iran for shits and giggles.

Did you know that in 2007 some NBA Refs were caught rigging games for just $2000 a game? Now Refs don't even need to be payed off when you can make a position anonymously with bitcoin.

b65e8bee43c2ed0 6 hours ago | parent [-]

>Additionally, no one has the power to magically set a stock price to be a certain price on a certain date.

but many have the knowledge of which company or industry is about to experience legislation, which they can pass to any of their associates worldwide, who can then buy or short the affected entities and share the profit with the insider. Polymarket is just the idiocracy version of that.

bshaughn 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I completely agree insider trading is an issue, especially with the legality of sitting congressmen being able to day trade. But with the exception of elected officials voting for bad bills / policies, the "victim" is whomever loses money on those trade. Its reactive to world events, meaning the world events aren't being changed by the insider trader.

Polymarket is worse as it gives a mechanism for proactively changing the outcome of events to a much more extreme degree, simply because someone can make money on it.

A benign version of this would be NFL employees betting $1million on the color of gatorade in the Superbowl.

An insane version of this would be Trump issuing a single airstrike on Iran after having a friend or family member place a $10M bet on polymarket that pays out $1B. It completely erodes the obligation our government officials have to not act in their self interests.

dev1ycan 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

because not everyone does naked option trading or nfts... while straight up gambling on 50/50 odds is WAY more enticing.

BLKNSLVR 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Fool and his money are quickly separated…

Example: I had a flutter on the US Election. The odds were well in favour of Trump winning and I figured that was never going to happen, so I thought I was putting 'smart money' on Kamala.

I stand by it being 'smart' money ;)

I underestimated 'dumb' (which, I guess, isn't 'smart').