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dsr_ 4 hours ago

Counter example: Kagi.

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MontyCarloHall 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Kagi is a niche product at best, with revenue literally orders of magnitude lower than Google's.

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tasty_freeze 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

At one time Google was a niche website, literally orders of magnitude lower than Alta Vista.

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rvz 3 hours ago | parent [-]

With that logic, are you also going to expect Kagi to generate minimum $10B to $35B in revenue a quarter over the next 27 years then, the lifetime of Google's existence?

Do you see how such a comparison doesn't work?

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tasty_freeze 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, I don't expect it to be the next Google, nor did my statement imply that. The point was that just because something is small doesn't mean it has to remain small. That is true whether or not Kagi never becomes the biggest.

> Do you see how such a comparison doesn't work?

No, I don't.

	▲	rvz 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Thank you for admitting that Kagi is not a viable counter example.

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throwaway150 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, but it is still a valid counterexample to:

> I think ads will inevitably roll out across all tiers

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MontyCarloHall 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Kagi is too small and niche to have a proprietary dataset across its users large enough to make targeted advertising generate more revenue than subscriptions.

OpenAI/Google/etc. operate at a much larger scale, large enough for those proprietary user datasets to be worth far more in ad revenue than any reasonable subscription fee could net.

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sodapopcan 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think they're saying it's inevitable for billion dollar capitalist companies. /not-s

And anyway, companies that just want to make a really good living doing what they love are lame. /s

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dmd 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's really not, though. If a "valid counterexample" can be something with, say, one user, then I can make a "valid counterexample" to literally anything you choose, but that's meaningless.

	▲	Teever 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Someone is showing that they can deliver similar products or services without ads. It’s comparable. Not every corporate entity needs to become a behemoth to be successful.

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bflesch 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Kagi has recently moved to new offices in Belgrade. While I like their product we should not forget that serbia is not a free country, there has been massive corruption and russian influence. Even though there are massive protests from time to time, no leadership change has happened.

I don't think the Kagi team has any bad intentions, and most likely they have attended the anti-Vucic protests as well. Moving back to Serbia is an economically wise choice for Kagi as a company.

However, once regime goons show up in Kagi's offices, they will be forced to do whatever the serbian government and by extension putin wants them to do.

Often Kagi gets mentioned alongside Protonmail and related privacy-focused services. But Switzerland is a totally different country than serbia to operate it.

It's a risk we should be aware of and consciously decide to accept when we are using Kagi.

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prmoustache 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> But Switzerland is a totally different country than serbia to operate it.

CIA vs Putin. Not that different imho.

	▲	bflesch an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Your "humble opinion" is totally worthless because your are using false equivalence bias in order to minimize the atrocities and war crimes that putin has committed against Ukraine and the citizens of many other countries including his own.

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raffael_de 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why is that a counter example? Kagi is just providing a convenient access to several language models that might well advertise via API, too.