Remix.run Logo
latexr 4 hours ago

> All startups are created to solve a problem

And most of the time that problem is “the founders don’t have as much money as they want”.

> Apps are simply tools to solve human problems. Because humans will always have challenges to address, software will remain a vital tool.

You make it sound like it’s something noble, but let’s not pretend most software companies these days don’t have “make me rich” as the top goal. Effectively everything VC backed (yes, including by Y Combinator) falls in that category. That’s why pivots are a thing. Most founders these days don’t give a shit about what they’re building or customers, they only care about the payoff.

dahart 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This seems like a very jaded comment, and if it’s because you got burned in a startup, then you have my sympathy and I’m sorry for debating. Just know that not everyone is running on nothing but greed. You might be confusing VCs with startup founders a bit. VCs are definitely profit motivated, by design. It’s going too far, and incorrect IMO, to suggest even VCs, or anyone involved, doesn’t care about building solutions or care about customers. All founders I’ve ever met care about what they make, and most VCs care about it somewhat but also care that the founders care strongly; they don’t often fund founders who don’t care.

So can you source any of your claims of “most”? I just looked it up, and the majority of software startups are self-funded or angel/seed-funded, not VC funded. Founders that don’t care about product or customers enough tend to fail. Founders that only care about the payoff don’t tend to self-fund their startup.

That said, everyone and all companies have financial incentives. There’s nothing unique or new about software startup founders there. The entire economy runs on profit motive. And I’ve seen a lot more people who don’t care about customers or product working in large companies making a nice easy salary working 9 to 5 (or less)!

My personal sampling of founders vs company workers is that founders are, by far, the ones who care more deeply about building something new and delighting customers and growing a sustainable business, care enough to start working nights and weekends, go years with crappy pay or no pay, to do every job in the company from engineering to design to marketing to support to filing taxes. Some people certainly are at least partially motivated to accept these sacrifices for the chance at a payoff, but lots of founders would prefer a lifestyle company where they get to keep building and don’t have the insane pressures and politics of a unicorn company.

Pivots are a thing because good product ideas often are not good business ideas. Startups that fail to pivot are the ones that die, and if your startup dies you don’t get to care about what you’re building or about customers at all. If you want companies to care about product and customers and not profit, then you should embrace sustainable economics, and that means making things people will pay for, and when they’re not paying, making something else.

cowboy_henk 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's a cynical take, but a more positive interpretation is that pivots are needed if your company isn't actually solving a problem. Otherwise people would pay for it, and the founders would be getting rich. So you need to pivot until you actually create a solution to a problem that people will pay for.

latexr 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> That's a cynical take

One that you apparently agree with, given the rest of your comment.

> you need to pivot until you actually create a solution to a problem that people will pay for.

In other words: You don’t care about the problem, you care about the profit from selling a solution.

If a startup is “created to solve a problem” and then pivots to solve a different problem because the first one wasn’t profitable, that means profit was the priority, not solving the problem.

pousada 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Of course profit is a priority how else are you going to pay the bills/employees etc?

9rx an hour ago | parent | next [-]

A healthy business uses revenue to pay bills, employees, etc.

Using profit to pay for those things is what we call gambling.

pousada an hour ago | parent [-]

Guess I got the semantics wrong, not my first language _shrug_

latexr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“The”, not “a”.

There is a chasm of difference between “I care about this problem and want to solve it, but I also need to think how to make it sustainable” and “I don’t really care what I’m tackling, as long as I make bank”.

Both exist. The second one is ever more the norm.

tock 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why is this a problem? As long as the problem gets solved.

latexr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would expect it to be obvious that caring about making money above fixing a problem means the problem won’t be solved that well compared to the alternative.

Are you really going to claim you never encountered a startup that is obviously shitting on customers and degrading the experience to make a buck? Do you honestly believe all startups are created to solve a problem (the original claim I responded to) and none are created with the intent of being the next “unicorn” to make the founders rich? If that is the case, search the term “enshittification”. Surely you’ll have encountered it by now. Pick whatever example helps you understand the point.

tock 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't see how its "obvious" at all. I think most problems wouldn't be solved at all with this view because most problems aren't something people care about. Money gives people the incentive to solve every problem possible. Someone who "cares" is free to solve it even better and make even more money.

dahart 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is to some extent a false dichotomy. Generally speaking, products that prioritize fixing a problem “above” making money do not exist. There are no alternatives. Businesses can’t sustain that. Sometimes it happens for a short while, and eventually they reduce the level of service, or charge more money, or die.

I don’t know why you’re picking on startups. Big companies are where you see enshittification the most, and it’s because economies of scale require them to cut costs. Startups can often use VC fuel to offer delightful and unprofitably superior solutions to problems. That goes away after startups graduate to being real companies.

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]