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eimrine 13 hours ago

Why they are constantly so bad at AI but so good at everything else?

MontyCarloHall 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because their focus on user privacy makes it difficult for them to train at scale on users' data in the way that their competitors can. Ironically, this focus on privacy initially stemmed from fumbling the ball on Siri: recall that Apple never made privacy a core selling point until it was clear that Siri was years behind Google's equivalent, which Apple then retroactively tried to justify by claiming "we keep your data private so we can't train on it the way Google can." The result was a vicious cycle: initially botch AI rollout -> justify that failure with a novel marketing strategy around privacy that only makes it harder to improve their AI capabilities -> botch subsequent AI rollouts as a result -> ...

To be clear, I'd much rather have my personal cloud data private than have good AI integration on my devices. But strictly from an AI-centric perspective, Apple painted themselves into a corner.

potamic 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's a poor justification. There are companies that sell you all kinds of labelled data. OpenAI, Anthropic didn't train on their own user data.

tensor 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is nonsense. You don't need Apple user data to build a good AI model, plenty of startups building base models have shown that. But even if you did it's nonsense as Apple has long had opt-in for providing data to train their machine learning models, and many of those models, like OCR or voice recognition, are excellent.

wat10000 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple's privacy focus started long before the current AI wave. It got major public attention in the fight with the FBI over unlocking the San Bernardino shooter's phone. I don't think Google's equivalent even existed at that point.

rfv6723 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

See ML research papers from Apple. Their researchers prefered small models over LLM. So they thought researchers' effort would make up the lack of compute. Then the scale law hit them hard.

jjtheblunt 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

it's pretty Apple-ish to not jump into a frenzy, and wait for turbulence to settle, i believe. delegation to Gemini fits that theory?

dewey 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They've tried to have an AI assistant before AI was a big thing...it's just pretty bad and Siri never got better.

If it would suddenly get better, like they teased (Some would say, lied about the capabilities) with Apple Intelligence that would fit pretty well. That they delegate that to Gemini now is a defeat.

tibbar 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, Siri has been bad for what, 15 years now? It does seem like a bt of an outlier.

wooger 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Siri got substantially worse over time in fact, I swear it used to at least be able to give you answers to basic facts rather than just offering to google things.

raisedbyninjas 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Gemini only replaced Google assistant on Android a few weeks ago. I gave up on Google assistant a few years ago, but I'd guess it wasn't a worthwhile upgrade from Siri.

krupan 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Still using Google assistant after trying Gemini on my pixel about 6 months ago. It was not an assistant replacement, it couldn't even perform basic operations on my phone, it would just say something like, "I'm sorry, I'm just an LLM and I can't send text messages." Has that changed?

6 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
layer8 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They aren’t so good at everything else either.

eimrine 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I would not lure so much comments if not say this. Let's fish an answer from that pool of Apple's fanboys.

lunar_rover 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple is almost purely customer products, they don't have the resources to compete with the giants in this field.

Their image classification happens on-device, in comparison Google Photos does that server side so they already have ML infra.

blibble 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

have you used iOS 26?

"liquid ass" is how most of my friends describe it

DetroitThrow 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's been a long running thing that Apple can't do software as well as competitors, though in my experience they've beat Google and a few others at devex and UX in their mobile frameworks overtime despite initial roughness. Slow and steady might win this race eventually, too.

xnx 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's no reason to think that Apple would have any more skill at making a frontier AI model as they do at making airplanes or growing soybeans. Not much overlap between consumer electronics design and expertise, data, training, and datacenters needed for AI.

its_ethan 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I feel like this ignores how big of a part the software is for those "consumer electronics" Apple is so good at making.

Apple definitely has software expertise, maybe it's not as specialized into AI as it is about optimizing video or music editors, but to suggest they'd be at the same starting point as an agriculture endeavor feels dishonest.

mdasen 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think that's the thing: Apple is good at very little, but they seem like they're good at "everything else" because they don't do much else. Lots of companies spread themselves really thin trying to get into lots of unrelated competencies and tons of products. Apple doesn't.

Why does a MacBook seem better than PC laptops? Because Apple makes so few designs. When you make so few things, you can spend more time refining the design. When you're churning out a dozen designs a year, can you optimize the fan as well for each one? You hit a certain point where you say "eh, good enough." Apple's aluminum unibody MacBook Pro was largely the same design 2008-2021. They certainly iterated on it, but it wasn't "look at my flashy new case" every year. PC laptop makers come out with new designs with new materials so frequently.

With iPhones, Apple often keeps a design for 3 years. It looks like Samsung has churned out over 25 phone models over the past year while Apple has 5 (iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone Pro, iPhone Pro Max, iPhone 16e).

It's easy to look so good at things when you do fewer things. I think this is one of Apple's great strengths - knowing where to concentrate its effort.

jen20 12 hours ago | parent [-]

This is some magical thinking. Even if Samsung took all their manpower, all their thought process and all their capital, they still couldn’t produce a laptop that competes with the MacBook (just to take one example), because they fundamentally don’t have any taste as a company.

Hell, they can’t even make a TV this year that’s less shit than last years version of it and all that requires is do literally nothing.

layer8 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I haven’t seen a lot of good taste from Apple in recent years.

TiredOfLife 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> but so good at everything else?

They aren't.