If it helps anyone I take antidepressants and have had a positive experience with them. Depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance and no amount of exercise or talking about it will fix it.

One of the most frustrating things when your really low is people giving advice like do exercise to feel better - please don’t do this.

▲ altruios a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance and no amount of exercise or talking about it will fix it.

This is a debatable. As far as I understand things: 'chemical imbalance' has no tests to confirm that's actually true, That's just a story they tell to relax people.

Which is orthogonal to the point that antidepressants can work for some people.

We don't know how depression works. It very well may be many little things dressed in a trench coat.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266656032...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

https://www.neurocaregroup.com/news-insights/the-death-of-ch...

▲ javier123454321 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Jim Carey had the best way to think about this: “I believe depression is legitimate. But I also believe that if you don’t exercise, eat nutritious food, get sunlight, get enough sleep, consume positive material, surround yourself with support, then you aren’t giving yourself a fighting chance.”

	▲	gehsty a day ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I wonder what his thoughts are on post natal depression? Of course those things help but there can be factors outside of people’s control that can lead them down this path…
	▲	evanjrowley a day ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Another quote from Jim Carey: People talk about depression all the time. The difference between depression and sadness is sadness is just, you know, from happen stance. Whatever happened or didn't happen for you... ... and depression is your body saying fuck you, I don't want to be this character anymore, I don't want to hold up this avatar that you've created in the world. It's too much for me. So, a friend of mine who's a spiritual teacher has a really good take. His name is Jeff Foster, and his take on it is that they should change [how we think of] the word "depressed" as "deep rest" deep rest - your body needs to be depressed, It needs deep rest from the character that you've been trying to play. Link: https://youtube.com/shorts/lMQJ2bHeP4c?si=UPRHV8DVWZ77nXCM
	▲	BeetleB a day ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		If you say that to a depressed person, they are going to sink deeper into despair. Most people (even those who are not depressed), are not meeting that bar. Always remember, being true is not the same as being helpful.

▲ scosman a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exercising can help. It's not bad advice or inappropriate to suggest it. People shouldn't suggest it as if it's a cure all and certainly shouldn't suggest you just need to buck up, but the study is showing it can really help.

Context: I'm "using" SSRIs, talk therapy, psychotherapy, strength training and endurance training -- all in parallel right now.

	▲	gehsty 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It can be inappropriate depending on where the person is, when I was diagnosed I could barely get out of bed. Feels a bit like telling an anorexic person to eat something.

▲ D-Machine a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Chemical imbalance" theories of depression (e.g. "serotonin hypothesis") have been scientifically discredited for well over a decade now.

EDIT: For a recent overview, see https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

▲ diob a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, exactly. I have exercised daily (either weight training or cardio) for nearly 20 years. I've also had anxiety and depression for that entire stretch of time.

Exercise was how I stayed mildly sane for a good majority of those years, but when I started taking medication it was like the entire world changed. I wish I had started earlier in life. It helped me to become a lot more introspective as well, being able to better examine why I was feeling the way I did.

There are some things that no amount of exercise or "healthy living" can fix, that's unfortunately just the human condition. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

▲ tsoukase 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Usual antidepressants (reuptake inhibitors) have specific chemical and clinical effects. Some forms of depression, mostly with stress, respond heavily, others, like refractory and bipolar, show no effect. It's like saying a knife cannot cut an arbitrary material. It depends. Studies of ADs must start to differentiate at least a few subtypes of depression.

▲ achierius a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance

And yet many other times, it can be caused or exacerbated by situational and psychological factors, including "being stuck at home all day".

> One of the most frustrating things when your really low is people giving advice like do exercise to feel better - please don’t do this.

Worse, antidepressants actually cause significant harm to many people who take them, often without even improving their depressive symptoms. This is very bad, and I would say significantly worse than giving general advice that might be inapplicable to some people.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution, and some people probably are legitimately just in need of more motivation to go running or biking or whatever else will get them the exercise they need.

▲ joe_the_user a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I support people taking antidepressants if it helps them.

But I have to say the "chemical imbalance" theory either means no more than "depression responds to an antidepressant (sometimes)" or it is false/meaningless. Neither neurologists nor psychologists have a sufficiently detailed understanding of the workings of the brain to make such a claim.

Again, I'm glad drugs work for you. I would note that there three ways drugs can go for people; working with few problems, not working, working but with significant physical and/or psychological side-effects. Especially, taking any substance daily for the rest of one's life can stress the organs responsible for digesting/processing regardless of whether than substance is otherwise a great fix.

So I think we need to look beyond a glib "this fixes it for everyone" rhetoric even if this fixes it for you (and yeah, some of my friends should at least drugs, I'll admit).

▲ ge96 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

that $5K deductible though...

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gehsty a day ago | parent [-]

Apologies - one of the very few great things left in UK is the NHS and my diagnosis was free and my prescription is £9/month.

I take sertraline (Zoloft in the US I think) and that is cheap - $20/30 month.

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arpinum a day ago | parent | next [-]

You would pay less than £9 in the USA for 1 month of sertraline.

	▲	gehsty 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Maybe so, but I also cut m finger quite badly on NYD, I went to an urgent care centre had it looked at, x rayed and dressed and some antibiotics. The next day I had an appointment with a consultant and then went in to surgery to have it inspected to see if I had cut the nerves or tendon (thankfully I had not), had it swen up dressed, and a follow up appointment to have the dressings removed and final check. All at no cost. The £9 is for the administration of the prescription - if th drugs are super expensive heart medication or whatever, it would still be £9 (or free). I stand by NHS being the only great thing we have left.

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ge96 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not even talking medication, talking about cost of therapy it's like $200 per session sometimes but yeah all depends

I had to pay $3K for an MRI in cash one time, which yeah you get what you pay for but my buddy pays $2.8K/mo in insurance for his family, like that's a big chunk of his monthly pay

Oh I want to be clear no snark towards you this is the cliche topic of healthcare in US

Regarding the topic at hand though, yeah I lift 5 days a week and do a half hour of maximum inclined walk for those days as well. Mental health but also I want to be ripped. Helps my job has a gym and I'm the only one in there in the mornings. We also walk like 2 miles at work, in circles around the parking lot, talking to co-workers 4 days a week.

My main problem is anxiety, like I wish I could walk downtown in a city and do street photography but I fear that someone will ask me for money or get robbed. The funny thing is I'm a big guy, like 6', I bench almost 300 lbs. I'm not like a stick. I have a fear of crowds too I can do shopping but sometimes in like a WalMart that's a lot of people and of course I'm terrible with women, the fear even if I have the bod. I'm just scared of eye contact and low self-esteem even having a six-fig job my self-determined value is whether a woman will say yes to me or not, it's funny. I don't have a fear of speed I can drive 160mph+ on the highway, helps to have a good car.

But for the moment I'm working towards freeing myself from debt and then being able to live a life where I'm not in fear of losing my job. I'm a privileged person, this is brought on by myself eg. dropping $1.2K a night at a strip club or $600 Venmoing a band to play song requests. I'm complaining about therapy cost lmao.

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lowdownbutter a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> my diagnosis was free

As long as you don't factor in your taxes.

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dns_snek a day ago | parent [-]

Do you think they're stupid and just don't realize that they pay for it with taxes?

You're not factoring in the most critical piece of financing - the mental burden. You don't want to be stuck figuring out how to get enough money to pay for mental health services when you need them the most. That's when your earning potential is at its lowest, and every minor obstacle to getting help gets magnified ten fold.

That may as well be a death sentence unless you're privileged enough to be able to easily pay for it with savings. Realizing that you need help, figuring out how to access it, and actually following through is hard enough as it is without any added financial burden.

	▲	gehsty 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		For me I think the quality and type of care is different when there’s no profit centre - it’s just people looking after people.

▲ lifetimerubyist a day ago | parent | prev [-]

The hypothesis of chemical imbalance causing depression is mostly discredited.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/analysis-depression-prob...