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zahlman 4 days ago

> I disagree with most comments that the brusque moderation is the cause of SO's problems, though it certainly didn't help. SO has had poor moderation from the beginning.

Overwhelmingly, people consider the moderation poor because they expect to be able to come to the site and ask things that are well outside of the site's mission. (It's also common to attribute community actions to "moderators" who in reality have historically done hardly any of it; the site simply didn't scale like that. There have been tens of millions of questions, versus a couple dozen moderators.)

The kinds of questions that people are getting quick, accurate answers for from an LLM are, overwhelmingly, the sort of thing that SO never wanted. Generally because they are specific to the person asking: either that person's issue won't be relevant to other people, or the work hasn't been done to make it recognizable by others.

And then of course you have the duplicates. You would not believe the logic some people put forward to insist that their questions are not duplicate; that they wouldn't be able, in other words, to get a suitable answer (note: the purpose is to answer a question, not solve a problem) from the existing Q&A. It is as though people think they are being insulted when they are immediately given a link to where they can get the necessary answer, by volunteers.

I agree that Reddit played a big role in this. But not just by answering questions; by forming a place where people who objected to the SO content model could congregate.

Insulting other users is and always has been against Stack Overflow Code of Conduct. The large majority of insults, in my experience, come from new users who are upset at being politely asked to follow procedures or told that they aren't actually allowed to use the site the way they're trying to. There have been many duplicate threads on the meta site about why community members (with enough reputation) are permitted to cast close votes on questions without commenting on what is wrong. The consensus: close reasons are usually fairly obvious; there is an established process for people to come to the meta site to ask for more detailed reasoning; and comments aren't anonymous, so it makes oneself a target.

eastbound 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

It seems you deny each problem that everyone sees in SO. The fact is SO repulsed people, so there is a gap between your interpretation and reality.

> It is as though people think they are being insulted when they are immediately given a link to where they can get the necessary answer, by volunteers.

This, for example. Question can be marked as duplicate without an answer. In this case yes, it feels insulting because the other is asked in such a weird way, that no-one will find the old when they search for the new (for example after a library change) and marking it as duplicate of an unanswered answer if a guarantee that the next SEO user won’t see it.

zahlman 4 days ago | parent [-]

> Question can be marked as duplicate without an answer.

No, they literally cannot. The only valid targets for closure are existing questions that have an upvoted or accepted answer. The system will not permit the closure (or vote to close) otherwise.

If you mean "without writing a direct answer to the new question first", that is the exact point of the system. Literally all you have to do is click the link and read the existing answers.

> it feels insulting because the other is asked in such a weird way, that no-one will find the old when they search for the new

Sure. But someone else knew about the old question, found it for you, and directly pointed you at it so that you could get an answer immediately. And did all of this for free.

And, by doing this, now everyone else who thinks of your phrasing for the question, will be immediately able to find the old question, without even having to wait for someone to recognize the duplicate.

eastbound 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

I’m sure I’ve had the experience of being told it’s a duplicate, without resolving my problem.

In any case, you may be right, and yet if you search this thread for “horrible” and “obnoxious”, you’ll find dozens of occurrence. Maybe defining the rules of engagement so that the user is wrong every time doesn’t work.

Izkata 3 days ago | parent [-]

> I’m sure I’ve had the experience of being told it’s a duplicate, without resolving my problem.

And when that happens you're invited to edit your question with more details so that's clear, to get it reopened.

matkoniecz 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> Question can be marked as duplicate without an answer.

> No, they literally cannot.

You missed that people repeatedly closed question as duplicate when it was not a duplicate.

So it had answer, just to a different mildly related question.

LLM are having problems but they gaslight me in say 3% of cases, not 60% of cases like SO mods.

zahlman 3 days ago | parent [-]

Please feel free to show examples.

16 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
samat 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

you are missing the point

firesteelrain 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

matkoniecz 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> It is as though people think they are being insulted when they are immediately given a link to where they can get the necessary answer, by volunteers.

Multiple times my questions closed as duplicates of question that was answering a different question.

Even when I explicitly linked that QA in my question and described how it differs from mine.