| ▲ | g947o 3 hours ago |
| You can pretty much replace BYD with any Chinese company (and to some extent, almost any company in the world) and the sentence would still make sense. So I have mostly lost interest in the argument. Not that it is an incorrect or irrelevant argument, but none of that has really mattered. |
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| ▲ | thesmtsolver2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is the standard “nothing can be done and everyone does it” argument when shown that BYD is literally at the bottom of the pile. |
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| ▲ | skinnymuch 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | A western org says out-group companies are at the bottom of the list of a report that is self reports and “transparency” aka trusting the companies words. Obviously their in-group companies will rank higher. That’s the entire purpose of the report. |
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| ▲ | bawolff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Presumably you can't make the statement that almost all companies are below average on human rights. Mathematically at least half have to be above average. |
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| ▲ | tshaddox 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Presumably most people also wouldn’t be particularly concerned with what the average is. If all companies have human rights records ranging from bad to terrible, surely it’s no compliment to be above average. | | |
| ▲ | bawolff an hour ago | parent [-] | | I disagree. I find the notion that everyone is a little evil therefore it is ok to be any level of evil, to be morally repungent. |
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| ▲ | ginko 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’d be the median, not the average. | | |
| ▲ | AceJohnny2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Torturers Inc, that operates in $country_i_hate & tortures over 10,000 people each day, is an outlier adn should not have been counted | |
| ▲ | bawolff an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fair point, although i would generally assume that ethical behaviour of companies is normally distributed. | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Median/mean/mode/geometric are all types of averages. | | |
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| ▲ | gloryjulio 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This. Most of the Chinese products met the definition of dumping. They over produce with suppressed wages, currency exchange rate, and government subsidies. The current generations of Chinese workers do not benefit from this. To clarify, they have top products, some are well paid. But the general trend is dumping. I am curious when will other countries would actually start of defend their industries properly. |
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| ▲ | concinds 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Industry talking points, meant to convince you to subsidize them. | | |
| ▲ | Retric 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You don’t need to subsidize domestic companies to adjust for currency exchange rate manipulation. The government could for example impose a tariff that covers half the difference thus maintaining an unfair advantage for Chinese companies. Thus profiting from the manipulation without placing excessive burden on domestic companies. | | |
| ▲ | rapidfl an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Agree subsidies does not seem like the correct incentive structure. But that's what the other guy is doing so I guess that's what we have to do. In general, can the EV industry survive without government subsidies? Maybe now it can in the US. Also not convinced EVs (as they are currently) are vastly superior to ICE cars. Not accounting for the potential for ICE cars to vastly improve if there wasn't so much vested interest. So the whole EV industry seems a bit unsustainable... | | |
| ▲ | Retric 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | For almost everyone with home charging, EV’s are a substantial win even without subsidies. There’s so many little wins like being able to turn the car on to warm up in a garage without filling it with exhaust. That’s a long way from every driver, but the EV industry doesn’t need to make up every car sale to survive just fine. ICE cars can’t get vastly better they are simply too close to fundamental limits. It’s quickly becoming a competition between hybrids and EV’s. |
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| ▲ | eggnet 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I assume you're joking, but this is just sales tax. | | |
| ▲ | Retric an hour ago | parent [-] | | Tariffs are quite different than a sales tax because they can select winners and losers in a market. Cane sugar vs sugar beets etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet However, they don’t have to be high enough to change who wins, even small ones adjust how much foreign subsidies manipulate the market. Foreign governments should consider how much US corn syrup impacts domestic consumption for example as a separate issue from how it impacts domestic sugar production. China’s currency manipulation has second order effects that benefits Americans. We don’t necessarily want China to stop, instead the goal should be to minimize the harm while extracting maximum benefits. A small tariff that caused them to double down on currency manipulation would be a massive win. |
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| ▲ | StopDisinfo910 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > They over produce with suppressed wages, currency exchange rate, and government subsidies I mean, so does Germany. Technically, the USA only has the massive subsidies part since the IRA came to be but they also have tariffs so, not doing too bad distortion-wise. At this point in time, pretty much everyone is already defending their industries. China is just playing its cards better than the others and with a head start when it comes to EV. | | |
| ▲ | ericmay 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Tariffs aren’t the same thing as suppressing wages, overproduction, government subsidies, and managed currency to prevent deflation. In the case of the US with respect to China they are mostly a retaliation to the above anti-competitive practices. But I hear you on who is playing their cards better. I don’t think China is playing theirs very well. They pissed off both the US and EU, and even Mexico is enacting tariffs on Chinese products. American and European countries are taking action to stop Chinese anti-competitive practices. Nice factories you have there, too bad there’s nobody to sell those products to. I also don’t know what you mean when you say for example the US and Germany are suppressing wages. I’m interested in what you mean by that specifically. |
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| ▲ | jgalt212 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > and to some extent, almost any company in the world This is weak sauce. |
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| ▲ | skinnymuch 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Claiming western companies are better because a western org said so based on self reports and western reporting is also weak sauce. “We investigated ourselves and found we are fine and our out-group isn’t” |
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