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d_silin 9 hours ago

Stress is a bit of a rarer aspect, most words can be disambiguated with any stress placement, except for a few exceptions, i.e. зáмок (castle) /замóк (lock).

Punctuation is secondary, just put commas, colons and semicolons where you feel they should go, most Russians don't know any better themselves.

Noun and verb inflections you will master with enough practice, yeah.

Maybe overall a more difficult language than English or German, but not in the same league as Chinese or Arabic, in my humble opinion.

Sam6late 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As an Arabic speaker I enjoyed learning Russian because we share verbless sentences, and you could just put the words together in any order and you get your idea across and you could be spot on too. So 'what is the time?'(Kotoryy chas) is 2 words as in Arabic for asking the time and other questions in conversation. And some Russian words have lovely music to my ears, as with ice cream and of-course, мороженое и, конечно.

kemitchell 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You may find this interesting: https://2009-2017.state.gov/m/fsi/sls/orgoverview/languages

jandrewrogers 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On a superficial level that seems like a roughly correct ranking in my experience. On the other hand, I picked up one of the category 3 languages pretty easily. I think some of these are more "weird" to a native English speaker than "hard" per se.

The aspects that make languages difficult for a native English speaker vary quite a bit with the language. I would expect individual experiences with the languages to have high variance as a consequence.

nfc 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It seems like an extremely coarse classification. Category 3 contains languages with very different degrees of difficulty, while Bulgarian and Russian are both Slavic they are nothing alike in terms of difficulty since Bulgarian is the most analytic of Slavic languages (has the less inflection). That makes it extremely easy to learn compared to Russian.

vkazanov 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What is also interesting is how written Russian was heavily influenced by old Bulgarian. In fact, written russian includes a lot of older written bulgarian vocabulary.

This results in a weird paradox: for literate Russians it is easy enough to read written bulgarian but almost impossible to understand the spoken language.

optymizer 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I speak Russian and some Bulgarian as third/forth languages, and while I agree that Russian is more difficult, I wouldn't say Bulgarian is "extremely easy" in comparison. It's maybe ~20% easier at best.

troupo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As others hsve pointed out, it's a very coarse (and rather arbitrary) categorization.

E.g. both Turkish and Russian are in Category 3, but Turkish is trivial compared to Russian.

Turkish grammar is extremely regular, and follows easily defined rules that fit about two pages of easily digestible tables.

In comparison, Russian is a separate class tought in Russian schools for four years to native Russian speakers. And you still get people who can't properly inflect numerals, for example.

integralid 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't English also a separate class taught in English schools to native English speakers?

Anonyneko 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not for four years, for all eleven years...

d_silin 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Difficulty scale looks about right.

cyberax 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Stress is a bit of a rarer aspect, most words can be disambiguated with any stress placement

The difficulty is that the stress pattern is not fixed and needs to be memorized, and it often changes the inflection of the word. E.g. "домá" means "houses", while "дóма" means "at home". Another tripping point is that the stress placement is almost always different in Russian when compared to English.

I'm volunteering as an English teacher for Ukrainian refugees, and one of my rules of thumb is: "If an English word looks similar to a Russian word, then the stress is likely on a _different_ syllable". It works surprisingly well.

gldrk 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>If an English word looks similar to a Russian word, then the stress is likely on a _different_ syllable

Most of these are Latin and French loanwords where Russian (same as e.g. German) carried the accentuation over from the source language. English is the odd one out as it insists on putting the primary stress on either of the first two syllables, except in some recent loans (and they still get a secondary stress). With nouns the preference is for the first syllable. Russian surnames get similarly butchered, including notably Nabokov, which could have been adopted unchanged.

Muromec 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Stress pattern in russian is not just different from English, it's also different from Ukrainian half the time.

deaux 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> except for a few exceptions, i.e. зáмок (castle) /замóк (lock).

Only because we're in a language thread: i.e. is "that is" (id est) e.g. is "example given" (exempli gratia)

braincat31415 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I find Mandarin Chinese a lot easier than Russian.

nephihaha 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Fiendish logographic writing system (Chinese) vs fiendish grammar (Russian). I'm not a fan of Pinyin transliteration aesthetically.

Russian has a lot of words I can recognise in it. Not just loanwords either but words such as brat, dva, kot (brother, two (twa), cat). The other problem is the tonal system although Mandarin balances that out with simple grammar. Mandarin strikes me as mostly vowels and Russian as strings of consonants.

somenameforme 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have been generally successful at learning Russian as an adult, but tonal languages are something that I just struggle with on a fundamental level. I want to express meaning and connotation with tones, rather than denotation. On the other hand I've never been terribly motivated to learn a tonal language, so it probably could be overcome, but it's something that would take an immense amount of training to overwrite that tone=connotation/emotion/question instinct.

It is also quite frustrating when a native speaker is completely unable to understand something you say because of a tonal issue. To their ear it must sound entirely different, yet to a non-tonal ear it sounds like you're saying everything 'almost' exactly correct.

mlrtime 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Right but those Mandarin tones are pretty easy for an native english speaker to learn to say, they roll off the mouth easily.

Likewise, learning to speak the tone is just another grammar dimension, memorization.

Listening for tone is the hard part, but once you know enough grammar AND know the context of the sentence, it falls into place.

YMMV, also Cantonese is more difficult here (IMO).

nephihaha 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

I find Cantonese a lot easier on the ear. Unfortunately, nearly all the Cantonese I know is rude.

vkazanov 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Only somewhat related: I was surprised by how simple and sound vietnamese grammar is when read through the latin alphabet. Tones are only a problem when speaking but it's increadibly easy to start understanding signs and labels in the country. Slavic and baltic languages i can read are MUCH harder to start with.

So i kind of suspect it might also be the case for chinese: tones and the alphabet are obscuring a clean grammar.

jandrewrogers 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Conveying what I've heard from a few Vietnamese that also speak Chinese, so not any kind of firsthand experience since I speak neither: Vietnamese is more difficult to speak but is a simpler (less expressive) language.

I agree that written Vietnamese is relatively straightforward. It isn't that difficult to read to the eyes of someone used to latin script.

dkga 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

So Vietnamese is the “Danish” of East Asia it seems

realusername 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Personally I find Vietnamese and Chinese to be about the same difficulty overall, just not on the same areas.

Vietnamese is massively harder to pronounce with way less room for mistakes whereas reading is easier.