| ▲ | isodev 20 hours ago |
| It’s fascinating the kind of cool features we can have when products are made to be useful, with their target user in mind. Go EU! |
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| ▲ | websiteapi 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
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| ▲ | wobfan 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Last time I checked the European Union was a political construct and not a phone manufacturer. | | |
| ▲ | websiteapi 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Man I guess the education system is pretty poor these days if the implication isn’t clear. Gemini analysis for you: The "Early Advantage" (Symbian) What it refers to: In the early 2000s, Europe was actually the global leader in mobile phones. Symbian was the operating system used by Nokia (Finland) and Ericsson (Sweden), and it dominated the smart-device market before the iPhone existed. The Failure: Despite this massive head start, European tech companies failed to innovate quickly enough when the modern smartphone era began (2007–2008). They were overtaken entirely by American companies (Apple's iOS and Google's Android). | | |
| ▲ | whynotmaybe 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Still don't get your point. How can the failures to innovate from privates companies be the responsibility of a political union of different governments? | | |
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| ▲ | tiffanyh 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Or it disincentivizes creating those features, if you must give it to your competitors. |
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| ▲ | avianlyric 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That’s a rather silly view to take. We have a phenomenon called “the first mover advantage” for a reason. Plenty of other markets and businesses operate just fine while operating in an environment that makes protecting individual innovation functionally impossible. Just look at any related to fast fashion (not that I think the fast fashion market is a healthy phenomenon) or any commodities market. Or for that matter, most of the software industry. The incentive for creating features should be to remain relevant and competitive. It shouldn’t be to build moats and war chests. | | |
| ▲ | websiteapi 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | "plenty of other markets" have way smaller margins and are not nearly as robust an industry as software. | | |
| ▲ | avianlyric 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you trying suggest that Apple’s margins are so small that they need state protection? Or that Apple can’t compete if they’re not able to tightly lock down every aspect of their ecosystem? | |
| ▲ | stefan_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't understand. Robust markets don't have large margins. Why would a regulator even want markets with enormous margin? That's usually market failure. |
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| ▲ | illiac786 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would agree in general, but in this specific case it’s still an advantage for the iOS platform in general. It just removes a buying incentive for the AirPods. The general problem is that there must be a line. Vendors don’t create lock-ins because they are malicious, they create it because it makes them money. Now, if we limit these lock-ins, it will reduce their ability to make money and yes, it will impact some features - short term. But looking at it long terms, vendor lock-ins are actually a reason to stop innovating: your customers are locked in anyway. So, overall, I would say this is good for innovation in general. | | |
| ▲ | websap 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I actually have a problem with this. I want AirPods to be undeniably the best experience for me because I am fully locked into the Apple ecosystem, and I know many folks have complaints against that. I find it to be rather pleasurable to use compared to all the other alternatives out there. So if I have to start sacrificing my experience in favor of universal support, that really sucks. | | |
| ▲ | reorder9695 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But this isn't sacrificing your experience, you're free to keep using your Apple AirPods with the quality and reliability you'd expect from Apple. This just means other brands can create products with similar features to AirPods, and if they're not as good or reliable, well that's why you're paying Apple for theirs. | | |
| ▲ | DANmode 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I see their point. If Apple knew they would need to expand this feature past their gear, possible they’d never have implemented. We may never know what stays unimplemented due to this. (This is a neutral take - note I do not have a personal opinion formed in this “debate”.) |
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| ▲ | illiac786 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | the long term innovation outlooks are still better, so you benefit long term as well. It’s just less obvious / measurable that immediate benefits. And also, short term, isn’t it that other EarPods are getting better, rather than AirPods getting worse? Medium term, I don’t think that Apple will stop innovating on AirPods just because of the EU market and this one feature not being exclusive to AirPods anymore. But it’s a possibility, I agree. | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is there anything that makes you believe they'll sacrifice quality to have universal support? | | |
| ▲ | jessecurry 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They did their initial AirPod implementation in a pretty insecure manner because it was securely locked to their hardware and they could trust themselves to not be malicious. If they have to build a feature, plus all the security around it, plus documentation, etc… it makes it much harder to bring to market. They may opt to skip it in favor of something else. | |
| ▲ | phatfish 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Spite? It's standard practice for corporations to take the ball home when they are forced to play fair. | |
| ▲ | ruszki 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They won’t, but Apple previously lied similarly against PWAs. |
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| ▲ | nutjob2 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your tortured argument tests credulity and is pretty much opposite of how actual markets work. In this case, stopping Apple from degrading competitor products means they can compete on a level playing field and Apple will need to create better products to maintain a lead. Their ability to degrade competitor products has nothing to do with the features or quality of their headphones but rather that they control a closed platform. Thus the EU's action in maintaining fair competition. |
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| ▲ | dangus 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Isn't Apple currently disincentivized to make features because they don't even allow competing smartwatches to access a basic feature set on iPhone? You're basically saying Apple would be disincentivized to innovate on the Apple Watch because Apple would need to release the underlying APIs that make those work with the phone to competing solutions. But the status quo is that competing solutions that are already better than the Apple Watch straight up aren't allowed on the platform, and the Apple Watch generally costs more than its competitors. You are unintentionally saying that if Apple had to allow third parties to use their private APIs, that the Apple Watch would have to cost less and/or innovate more in order to convince us all to buy it instead of buying a watch from Samsung or Google. What you are describing is a more competitive and open market where consumers benefit from lower prices and more of an incentive to innovate and justify high prices. I would also dispute the notion that merely releasing these APIs would somehow give away all your secret sauce. Competitors still have to build the experience on top of that. | |
| ▲ | morshu9001 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I disagree with this, but it shouldn't get downvoted. That's not how it works here. | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bro, market is there to benefit consumer first, not to make money for shareholders. | | |
| ▲ | phatfish 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That is what the "free market" was supposed to do, if you believe capitalist lore. Shareholders getting a cut was the side hustle. |
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| ▲ | SunshineTheCat 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is like giving credit to the toddler who cried for macaroni rather than the mom who made it for him. lol |
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| ▲ | tt24 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Fully agree. This type of mindset is prevalent on HN unfortunately. Not sure why self proclaimed “hackers” seem to be in love with these massive government entities nowadays. | | |
| ▲ | tkz1312 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not sure why self proclaimed "hackers" seem to be in love with walled gardens and corporate control :) | | |
| ▲ | tt24 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's the thing, you don't have to be! You are welcome to use another phone more to your liking. | | |
| ▲ | hashier 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are 2 phone operating systems and both make things user hostile. So no, there is not a real choice to use another phone. And it's not only about users. Headphone manufactures too. Their headphones need to support both iOS and Android phones. | |
| ▲ | cromka 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You obviously know that it's not just the phone, it's the apps we can use on them. There are only two companies and they both control the market. | | |
| ▲ | tt24 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | There are far more than two companies selling phones. | | |
| ▲ | Sayrus 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And yet if you want applications to work on your phone, many times you'll need approval from either Apple or Google. Google can effectively ban manufacturers (like they did with Huawei) from using "Android" by blacklisting them from Play Services. Apple owns the entire ecosystem and prevents third-party from having access to the same feature set. | | |
| ▲ | tt24 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Something tells me that the thing about Google not allowing custom Andriod operating systems to install apps is not quite true. I don't know about this specific topic yet, but I bet that if I look into it, I'll find out that there's nuance here that isn't been correctly portrayed by your comment. | | |
| ▲ | anonzzzies an hour ago | parent [-] | | You need to allow Play the play store and it's services and those will wall you in. Many times discussed here: many banking, gov, health apps around the world are banning anything not blessed by Google or Apple and installing on a non blessed system will not allow you to use them. My bank allows a modern and supported android or ios phone or a Windows laptop with a biometric card reader. Pretty much locked in and all banks are following. |
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| ▲ | phatfish 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe because they are the only organisation able to act against the massive (foreign, if it is anything tech related for a European) corporate entities nowadays. | | |
| ▲ | tt24 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Okay, so someone acting against something big and foreign is good? Why? | | |
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| ▲ | georgebcrawford 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Because they're often acting as a bulwark against powerful MNCs. | | |
| ▲ | tt24 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Let me know when Apple dictates what kind of transactions it's acceptable for me to engage in and which ones aren't - a decision that Apple has absolutely no say in, but the EU and other governing bodies regularly engage in. |
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| ▲ | bigyabai 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hey, don't take it personally. Apple is a known innovator in the field of government bribery: https://www.theverge.com/news/737757/apple-president-donald-... | | |
| ▲ | tt24 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not sure what this has to do with my comment but okay! |
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