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hhoorzad 11 hours ago

> I’d rather pay an extra $100 for the phone than have ads all over it.

In all likelihood, we will pay an extra $100 AND have ads.

mystifyingpoi 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

THIS. Never promote the idea of "can you please not bother me with ads, there you go there is your extra $100, what, $200? okay sure". That's how mafia operates. Do not promote such.

nielsole 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's how you self select as a high value ad target

fasbiner 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

People pay the mafia protection money because it's cheaper than fighting the mob and it makes the mob go away for awhile, and in the long run, we're all dead. Most mafia-like entities don't have an inexorable existential drive to take it all, they just charge what the market will bear.

And if you think there's a definitional difference between a government, a corporation and a mafia that stands up to any objective measure and isn't based entirely on social cues and special pleading, I think that's an extraordinary claim you have no evidence for.

Go lead a maoist insurgency or don't, but the fingerwagging moral appeal is worse than useless.

ben_w 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> People pay the mafia protection money because it's cheaper than fighting the mob and it makes the mob go away for awhile, and in the long run, we're all dead. Most mafia-like entities don't have an inexorable existential drive to take it all, they just charge what the market will bear.

If I had to guess, the Mafia will have professional economists on payroll telling the bosses about the Laffer curve and emigration.

But in this context, Apple's clearly on the low end of the Laffer curve* because they don't need a million apps, so who cares if the store fees are 15% or 85%, the supply is still there?**; while for emigration, being the least bad of the Apple/Google duopoly is all that is necessary.

* if you take literally that the App store fee is the "Apple tax"

** Answer: Judges in market abuse/monopoly cases because Apple is not actually sovereign; on paper neither is the Mafia, but this is where "monopoly on violence" is a useful definition of a state, in that where anything like the Mafia can exist, the state is de facto not sovereign no matter what it says on paper.

coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>And if you think there's a definitional difference between a government, a corporation and a mafia that stands up to any objective measure and isn't based entirely on social cues and special pleading,

If we're speaking of democratic governments you usually get to vote (whatever ineffective). And if we're speaking for non monopolistic corporations you also get to buy from another. With mafia there's a single, non-negotiable, option: the one running your area.

And both for goverments and corporations, there are other parties (e.g. courts) limiting what they can do.

rightbyte 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That seems rather reductionist.

fasbiner 9 hours ago | parent [-]

How so? In china, app stores are open to market competition as an eventual consequence of a maoist insurgency.

It's fine if you're personally a coward or you just don't think it's worth it. But not only does it work, it is so far, the only thing that has ever been proven to work.

rightbyte 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I am not a maoist.

I meant that this is reductionist:

> definitional difference between a government, a corporation and a mafia that stands up to any objective measure and isn't based entirely on social cues and special pleading

Thinking about it. Your post now is also reductionist. Maybe that is your thing?

bigyabai 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> and in the long run, we're all dead.

Well gee, when you put it like that all morality is relative huh?

rcMgD2BwE72F 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Of course morality is relative. But still, there's no point to compare something to nothing and say "why bother". Comparisons can be useful.

b112 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Only a left or right, one or the other world view would think such.

As with almost everything, it's both. Some morality is relative, some is absolute.

coldtea 5 hours ago | parent [-]

What morality is absolute?

Morality being absolute means just that you subjectively consider some moral rules absolute. Doesn't make them so, the way the law of gravity is absolute.

And it doesn't mean that every human society agrees to what you consider "absolute".

All things you consider "absolute", there are whole societies which found them to be just fine, and you'd do too if you were raised in them, including incest, murder of innocents, slavery, torture...

somenameforme 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Many things are naturally repulsive, but are indulged out of necessity or gain. For instance Aristotle wasn't opposed to slavery, yet nonetheless in his writings, now some 2400+ years ago, he found himself obligated to lay out an extensive and lengthy defense and rationalization of such, and he even predicted what would eventually end it:

"For if every instrument could accomplish its own work, obeying or anticipating the will of others, like the statues of Daedalus, or the tripods of Hephaestus, which, says the poet, 'Of their own accord entered the assembly of the Gods.' If, in like manner, the shuttle would weave and the plectrum touch the lyre without a hand to guide them, chief workmen would not want servants, nor masters slaves." [1]

There were millennia of efforts to end slavery, but it's only the technological and industrial revolution that finally succeeded in doing so. But the point is that even though Aristotle was ostensibly not opposed to slavery, he nonetheless knew it was a decision that needed justification because it was fundamentally repulsive, even in a society where it was ubiquitous and relatively non-controversial, thousands of years ago.

This 'natural repulsion' is, I think, some degree of evidence for persistent, if not absolute, morality throughout at least thousands of years of humanity's existence, and I see no reason to assume it would not trend back long further than that.

[1] - https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.mb.txt

coldtea 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>Many things are naturally repulsive, but are indulged out of necessity or gain

Most "naturally repulsive" things were accepted just fine in one society or another.

Aristole spent time to defend and rationalize slavery because that was just job, to spend time rationalizing things. Other societies practiced it with no such worries, and found it perfectly natural.

But even if we grant you your "naturally repulsive" actions existing, it doesn't mean they are objectively morally wrong. Just that their moral judgement is not just based on culture and historical period, but also on evolutionary adaptations. These could very well be considered fine in an earlier/later evolutionary stage (in an earlier one, for sure: animals don't have such qualms).

somenameforme 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

His arguments were generally driven by logic and reason, not rationalization. Rationalization is generally only necessary for adopting views that seem ostensibly inappropriate, which would certainly include these sort of 'naturally repulsive' acts. And indeed his arguments for slavery were some of his weakest precisely because they were uncharacteristic rationalizations.

I completely agree that if you go back far enough in the evolutionary pipeline then my claim becomes invalid. I also think it would not apply to people of a sufficiently reduced IQ. You need to have a minimum of intelligence to understand what you're doing, alternatives, and its consequences on others. But once you have that baseline of IQ then I think morality, and a natural repulsion to certain behaviors, comes as naturally as communication.

coldtea 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Morality is all relative any way you put it. There's no God-given objective morality, it's human made and changes.

crapple8430 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The only way to avoid that is if that $100 buys you actual ownership, like the ability to have your own secure boot keys and modify the software. So long as Apple still owns your phone, they can alter the deal, and there is nothing you can do about it.

merelysounds 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Perhaps not even that is completely safe long term, as companies can introduce a locked down dependency, reverse policies (see Google's recent sideloading stance), or find some other workarounds.

WD-42 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple is just admitting like everyone else that not having ads is just money left on the table. Where are people going to go? So yea they’ll keep adding more ads, keep charging more for their phones and there’s nothing anyone can really do about it.

al_borland 10 hours ago | parent [-]

It’s not just money left on the table, it’s a way to differentiate from the competition. When someone is trying to decide iPhones vs Android for their next purchase, being able to say “our OS doesn’t have ads” is big. I hear people complain about ads more than just about anything else.

I think users should have 0 tolerance for ads in the OS. It’s the broken window theory. Once they start, if the users don’t revolt, they will keep pushing them.

I find I don’t use the App Store much anymore. I used to browse it all the time, but it feels like one giant advertisement now.

pmontra 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, my Androids do not have ads because I can install Firefox with uBO and Blockada to block ads even inside apps. I don't know if uBO works in Safari and I don't know if iOS allows for something like Blockada. In doubt (and for other reasons,) I'm on Android. However I'm not the typical user. The typical buyers just want an iPhone or do not want one, like they want one brand of shoes or a brand of bags, no technical considerations. Fashion.

fireflash38 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For now. With Google blocking ad block ability on their browsers, what's to stop them from blocking ad blockers in their OS?

WD-42 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Because they don’t restrict what web browser engines you can run on android, so Firefox is actually Firefox there.

noname120 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AdGuard works great, it has a native Safari extension and I don’t see a single ad on there.

nixass 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's ublock for safari but it's sad compared to Firefox on Android. Also Safari is a dumpster fire on its own

isodev 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple Ads+, curated selection of premium ads for 9.99€/month.

Also available as part of Apple One if you buy 2TB of extra iCloud storage.

notyourwork 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Cannot wait for ads to slip into my iCloud storage.

Lio 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If that happens then people will just switch to the less premium, fully ad supported platform, Android, because the platform have just become commodities.

It might increase profits in the short term but it will hammer the brand.

AnthonyMouse 6 hours ago | parent [-]

> It might increase profits in the short term but it will hammer the brand.

Publicly-traded companies fairly consistently follow a particular arc. At first they produce something people like, and thereby become popular. This is often before they go public. Then they grow for a while, until the market becomes saturated. But they're a public company, so they're still expected to grow. And if you can't get more users, the only thing you can do is extract more out of each one.

That's enshitification in a nutshell.

People often suggest things like "consumer protection" regulations, but then you get malicious compliance and regulatory capture. There are only really two things that work:

The first is that the company is still controlled by a founder who actually cares about their reputation. This works pretty well when you can find it, but it tends not to last. Eventually people die or retire.

The second is competition. Not a duopoly where they each point to the other and claim there's an alternative while mirroring every bad act of their partner in crime. Actual competition, where the market share of new companies that have only entered the market in the last 5 years isn't zero. This is why e.g. Costco can be rated higher than Comcast by an amount represented by the difference in altitude between a scenic view at a local park and the depths of hell.

So that's where you want to direct regulatory efforts. Breaking up companies in concentrated markets, repealing regulations that raise barriers to entry or allow incumbents to lock out competitors, etc. Because once a company is beholden to Wall St, the only thing that can keep them honest is real competition.

11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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