Remix.run Logo
DenisM a day ago

Why do you think they will fade out?

observationist a day ago | parent | next [-]

Frontier models will eventually eat all the tedious tailored add-ons as just part of something they can do.

Right now models have roughly all of the written knowledge available to mankind, minus some obscure held out private archives and so on. They have excellent skills and general abilities to construct plausible sequences of actions to accomplish work, but we need to hold their hands to really get decent performance across a wide range of activities. Skills and agent frameworks and MCP carve out different domains of that problem, with successful solutions providing training data for future models that might be able to be either generalized, or they'll be able to create a vast mountain of synthetic data following successful patterns, and make the next generation of models incredibly useful for a huge number of tasks, by default.

It might also be possible that by studying the problem, identifying where mode collapses and issues with training prevent the right sort of generalization, they might tweak the architecture and be able to solve the deficiency through normal training runs, and thereby discard the need for all the bespoke artisanal agent specifications.

jonahbenton 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To my eyes skills disappear, MCP and agent definitions do not.

You can have the most capable human available to you, a supreme executive assistant. You still have to convey your intent and needs to them, your preferences, etc, with as high a degree of specificity as necessary.

And you need to provide them with access and mechanisms to do things on your behalf.

Agentic definitions are the former, and they will evolve and grow. I like the metaphor of deal terms in financial contracts- benchmarkers document billions of these now. The "deal terms" governing the work any given entity does for you will be rich and bespoke and specific, like any valuable relationship. Even if the agent is learning about you, your governance is still needed.

MCP is the latter. It is the protocol by which a thing does things for you. It will get extensions. Skill-like directives and instructions will get delivered over it.

Skills themselves are near term scaffold that will soon disappear.

verdverm 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Skills are specific, contextual, and persistent (stateful) whereas LLMs are not

jonahbenton 18 hours ago | parent [-]

It isn't between llm and skill, it's between agent and skill. Orgs that invest in skills will duplicate what they could do once in an agent. Orgs that "buy" skills from a provider will need to endlessly tweak them. Multiskill workflows will have semantic layer mismatches.

Skill is a great sleight of hand for Anthropic to get people to think Claude Code is a platform. There is no there there. Orgs will figure this out.

Cheers.

DenisM 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hear you - model development might overcome the shortcomings one day.

However the "waiting out" strategy needs a timeout. It might happen that agentic crutches around LLMs will bear fruit much sooner than high-quality LLMs arrive. If you don't have a timeout or a decent exit criteria you may end up waiting indefinitely, or at least until reality of things becomes too painful to ignore.

The "ski rental problem" comes to mind here, but maybe there is another "wait it out" exit strategy?

airstrike 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Frontier models will eventually eat all the tedious tailored add-ons as just part of something they can do.

I don't this makes any sense as MCP is a part of something they can do already

mbesto 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Right now models have roughly all of the written knowledge available to mankind, minus some obscure held out private archives and so on.

Sorry for the nit, but this is a gross oversimplification. Most private archives are not obscure but obfuscated and largely are way more valuable training data then the publicly available ones.

Want to know how the DOD may technically tracks your phone? Private.

Want to know how to make Coca Cola at scale? Private.

Want to know what the schematic is for a Google TPU? Private.

etc etc.

amitport a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

His point, I believe, was that it is early in the innovation cycle and they very well be replaced quickely with different solutions/paradigms.

DenisM a day ago | parent | next [-]

Well, some things fade out and some do not. How do we decide which one it is?

The reason I ask is that the pace of new things arriving is overwhelming, hence I was tempted to just ignore it. Not because things had signs of transience, but because I was drowning and didn't know where to start. That is not the same thing as actually observing signs of things being too foamy.

wuliwong a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Agreed. I think if this is overly concerning, developing early in the innovation cycle just might not be the ideal place to be. :)

orliesaurus a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Adoption on most of these has been weak, except MCP (and whatever flavor of markdown file you like to add to your agent context)

zingababba 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Microsoft seems to be pushing MCP pretty hard in the Azure ecosystem. My cynical take is they are very aware of the context bloat so see it as extra inference $$.

bonesss 20 hours ago | parent [-]

Pure speculation, but I feel the inference money is tiny compared to the speed and permanence of Office integrations MCP enables through the consultancy swarm.

MCP lets you glue random assed parts of services to mega-ultra-high critical business initiatives with no go between. Delivered through a personalized chat interface that will tell you how sexy you are and how you deserved to win at golf yesterday… from salesman to auto interface to forever contract in minutes.

MS sells to insecurities of incompetent management and facilitates territory marking at the expense of governments and societies around the world for mega bucks. MCP, obvious as it is technically, also lets them plug a library into existing services for a quick upgrade then an atomized upsell directly to the chat interfaces of upper management.

Microsoft’s CEO has talked about his agent swarm. Much like RPA this woo appeals strongly to the barely technical.