I'm excited about what Kagi is doing:

I have no illusions that they will turn into google the first chance they get, all companies do. But for now they seem pretty good.

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rrradical 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

I tried Orion about a year ago. I tried using the profile sandboxing. Logging into my google account in one profile also logged me in in another profile.

I can definitely excuse some bugs (there were crashes for example that I didn’t overly mind; I understand I was using prerelease software). But something like account containers should be built fundamentally to disallow any data sharing. If data sharing is a bug, and not fundamentally disallowed by the architecture, then it’s going to happen again later.

So for that reason I’m not bullish on orion.

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zamadatix 6 days ago | parent [-]

I'd be interested if the issue you ran into was actually due to poor architecture or just something not fully implemented in the pre-release. Unfortunately, it's closed source - so hard to tell from the outside.

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rrradical 6 days ago | parent [-]

Well it was definitely a bug. It worked in some cases (I think it even worked in google at first, and then a few days later it manifested). And the feature was advertised, even though, again, they never claimed the software to be release quality.

But my point is that, similar to security, you don't want to build this kind of feature piece meal. Either the containers are fundamentally walled off or they aren't.

	▲	zamadatix 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		I understand what your claim is, I just disagree it's that blanket. You could e.g. absolutely build the UI for a profile switcher before your implementation of the backend changes are merged without carrying implications of how well that will handle isolation in the same way in security you could implement the null cipher in TLS to test that portion of the code without it forever implying you have bad encryption.

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wyre 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Google is what it is because of advertising. Kagi's whole raison d'etre is to have a search engine without advertising.

	▲	idiotsecant 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		google is what it is because they have shareholders and need to make money. Maybe Kagi gets around that by setting up as a PBC, I hope so. I am not holding my breath.

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baggachipz 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Orion has matured as a browser and just hit 1.0. It's mac- and ios-only for now, but linux and windows ports are in the works. It has ad-blocking out of the box and has zero telemetry. I use it every day.

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bigyabai 6 days ago | parent | next [-]

My two cents - I'm not doing the "proprietary browser" shtick again. Unless I have real assurance that the software isn't going to become a $50/month SaaS, why should I leave my perfectly good current browser?

I get the feeling this kind of product will only appeal to unconscious iOS and macOS users. Windows and Linux users have much better (and freer) options than a WebKit wrapper.

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rdm_blackhole 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But Orion has the exact same issue that we are facing now with Chrome and Edge and Firefox. Orion is funded by Kagi, so it's a money losing venture. If Kagi folds tomorrow, who will pick the pieces and continue its' development?

Replace Orion with Chrome and Kagi with Google and you will find that we are in the same exact boat. Browsers cost money to maintain. Money has to come from somewhere. If the general public does not want to pay then who does?

Furthermore, what makes you think that Kagi will not one day do the same exact thing that Google has done with Chrome? Are you willing to bet that it won't happen?

And I am not here to bash on Kagi, I am one of their customers but I will not use Orion for the same reason I don't use Chrome.

	▲	baggachipz 6 days ago \| parent [-]
		If Kagi goes tits-up, you could switch to another browser. I don't see how this is a permanent decision.

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worik 6 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Not sure why you're getting downvoted

Orion browser is proprietary

That would be my guess.

That might be OK for you, but I have been burnt, as have many others, by proprietary software

If there is a choice, I make it