| ▲ | testbjjl a day ago |
| We? Seems like a personal vendetta from my perspective. I in no way shape or form want to send Americans to Venezuela for the holidays to start an armed conflict. |
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| ▲ | krior 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| You guys get what you voted for, time to take some responsibility. |
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| ▲ | lillecarl 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Without oil it's hard to keep the monstertrucks rolling down the highways, people have to drop their kids off at school! | | |
| ▲ | kakacik 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Gotta think about economy and those sweet sweet deals bringing tons of money and power to orange clan err economy and jobs! Its all fault of mexicans after all! Anyway I am sure there can be a new resort/casino or two somewhere there | |
| ▲ | mattmaroon 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We are a net exporter of oil and have been for nearly two decades. We can keep our monster trucks rolling just fine. |
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| ▲ | abc123abc123 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How do you know what he voted for? | | |
| ▲ | krior 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | He seems to imply that he is an US citizen and last time I checked the americans voted for Trump. | | |
| ▲ | estearum 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not even 50% of voters voted for Trump That Trump is even near the reigns of power is obviously an indictment of many facets of American culture and politics, but it doesn't really wash out to every individual American bearing responsibility the way you're suggesting here. | | |
| ▲ | krior 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Every citizen in a democracy has a responsibility for the actions of their government. Voting does not magically absolve you from that. And its hard to see the nuance from the outside when all you hear are threats of economic turmoil, death, destruction and war. Every action of the american government regarding my country has been hostile so far, so forgive me for loosing my patience with the american public. All that talk about "land of the free, home of the brave", but as soon as their government threatens the "free world" americans fold over like lawnchairs. Its incredibly dissapointing. | |
| ▲ | thunky 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think you're being too literal. The "you" in "you voted" was the country, not the person. We're all stuck with some shared ownership for what our country does even if we detest it. |
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| ▲ | ThunderSizzle 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What did you vote for? | |
| ▲ | mattmaroon 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most of us didn’t vote for Trump. A slim majority of voters did, many of them because he is generally anti-war. (I’ve never liked or voted for him, but his desire to end wars is sincere.) Many of his ardent supporters are confused as to what we’re doing in Venezuela right now and feel it’s the opposite of what they voted for. You certainly don’t expect this level of surprises from someone’s second term, but the unprecedented path of his political career has certainly made it much different. | | |
| ▲ | TitaRusell 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Interestingly in the Netherlands there is a custom that the majority of parliament has to agree to any military missions. In America one guy can start wars. | | |
| ▲ | mattmaroon 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Technically he can’t start a war though anymore I’m not even sure where the line is. Is drone bombing a terrorist camp a war? Or an act thereof? |
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| ▲ | sigwinch 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 48.34% shouldn’t be confused with majority. | | | |
| ▲ | array_key_first 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I’ve never liked or voted for him, but his desire to end wars is sincere I mean, evidently not. |
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| ▲ | ericjmorey 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Trump didn't even get a majority of votes cast. Over 77 million people voted against Trump. About 73 million were not old enough to vote. | | |
| ▲ | lbreakjai 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And 88 million people signaled they were fine with either candidate, by not voting. 165 million people out of 264 millions eligible voters supported this. | | |
| ▲ | bmacho 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | They did not signal that they were fine with either candidate by not voting. | | |
| ▲ | keeganpoppen 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | as someone who has never voted, i am absolutely okay with this characterization. i often hold my tongue when it comes to complaining about political stuff because i dont really feel like i have the right to. i mean, of course i HAVE the right, but the hypocrisy isn’t. to be clear: this is not the same thing as being animated about general gov. malfeasance, which is something that everyone is in the right to complain about, as the operation of the government isn’t a politics-specific issue in a lot of cases. | |
| ▲ | acdha 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > don't think one can blame them, not voting can be a legit option for many reasons, With the exception of people who have religious beliefs prohibiting voting, it’s saying that you don’t feel strongly enough about the differences between the two candidates to pick one. There are some people who can plead various hardships, but most people don’t have that excuse: it really did come down to thinking their life would be fine either way. | | |
| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | sigwinch 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, in the US electoral formula, not every vote for President will make a difference. Seven out of 50 states are close, so in 43 states it’s only a protest vote. | | |
| ▲ | acdha 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It still matters for the popular vote and all of the downstream candidates. People who stay home inevitably complain about local changes which also were on the ballot. I strongly support national electoral vote reform but it’s important to remember that every election really does matter. | |
| ▲ | krior 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Then maybe its time to ask yourself: do you live in a democracy when you cannot make your vote count? |
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| ▲ | freeopinion 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or thinking they were sunk either way. |
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| ▲ | krior 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Their intend may have been another, but the outcome is that they supported whoever was winning. | | |
| ▲ | 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | freeopinion 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ridiculous. Do you blame all Venezuelans for their current government? You shouldn't. | | |
| ▲ | TitaRusell 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes. Chavez was democratically elected. Maduro is not an alien he was born in Venezuela. Why did Venezuela become what it is today? Every citizen is responsible for what their country turned into. Ofcourse I do not expect anyone in the Venezuelan diaspora do any kind of introspection or soul-searching. Venezuela was a beautiful South American Switzerland and it is all the fault of the evil Cubans. | |
| ▲ | krior 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In a democracy every citizen is responsible for the actions of their state. | | |
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| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | refurb 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We don’t elect Presidents based on getting a majority of votes of all US citizens, even if they can’t vote. Do you know why? | | |
| ▲ | dragonwriter 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > We don’t elect Presidents based on getting a majority of votes of all US citizens, even if they can’t vote. We don't even elect Presidents based on getting a majority (or even plurality) of all voters who actually vote, though the method actually used usually (but not always) also happens to elect the person who does that. |
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| ▲ | beAbU 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nope. Sorry. From outside the US, there is just the US. We dont understand your "us vs them" tribalism nor the political divide. Every US citizen at this point is responsible for what's going on. Regardless of who you voted for. All of this is due to decades of complacency by the citizenry, it's not some sudden surprising coup. I'm not saying the rest of the world is in the clear though. I think many countries are headed in a similar direction. Hopefully this is the wakeup call we all need to step up and arrest this slide into authoritarianism that's happening everywhere. | | |
| ▲ | freeopinion 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | The recent elections in the U.S. went mostly anti-Trump. Is that the type of action you are calling for? Or did you want something more than running for office and voting? | | |
| ▲ | beAbU 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sorry, I don't know what elections you are talking about. The only one that I'm aware of was last year's election, which was very much the opposite of anti-trump. | |
| ▲ | krior 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And still Trump reigns without a care. But I am sure the next flipped seat in some mayor-election will bring him to his knees. Just one more lawsuit and we have him, just one more impeachment, pretty please. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Venezuelans also don't want you to send Americans. |
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| ▲ | vkou 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think anyone in the world besides the deranged fanbase wants to see this. | | |
| ▲ | leesalminen 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You’d be surprised. Last month on a visit to the U.S., 8/10 Uber drivers I had were Venezuelan. I’m a fluent Spanish speaker so I engaged in this very topic. The vast majority of them wanted Maduro out, and the fastest way to that is through U.S. intervention. They were not opposed to this. | | |
| ▲ | vkou 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | 1. This is a bit of a selection bias, since they are in the US, they aren't going to be the ones in the line of fire. It's all upshot for them. 2. Turn back the clock two decades ago, I'm sure plenty of ex-pat Iraqis wanted Saddam out, but half a million dead and a ten-year civil war and also fucking ISIS may have been a bit above what they were willing to pay. If I were living in a country ruled by a deranged autocrat (...), I too would like to see him removed, but that doesn't mean I'd invite war over it. (And the knives-out-nightly-disappearance repression that will inevitably follow.) 3. Given who Trump sucks up to and appoints, I'm sure he'll find his own monster to replace Maduro with. (The US track record with this in the Americas has been incredibly awful, but I've no doubt that he can set a new lowest bar.) He sure as shit won't be putting some lady who won a peace prize in charge. Yes, I suppose you have successfully provided a counter-argument to my point, and I have to concede it - there are people with more skin in the game than the average MAGA who want to stick their former neighbours' hands in the fire, to check if it is hot. Political expats and exiles do tend to favor invasions of their countries more than the people who live in them do, and I've not considered their viewpoints in this. |
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| ▲ | hsiudh 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | ~60% of the 8M people that fled Venezuela are incline to support a military intervention, that number goes down to 40% estimated for those still inside, so about more than half the country want external action to get out of the dictatorship. That percentage is for external action, the percentage that voted against the dictator in the stolen election last year was calculated at 76%; so no, is definitely not just the MAGA fan base that want to see something happen. | | |
| ▲ | andrepd 16 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A bad situation is not improved by an even worse one. It does speaks volumes to the desperation of Venezuelans that many would rather their own country get invaded if that rids them of Maduro. | | | |
| ▲ | SXX 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except last few times it went so well for the countries where "intervention" happen. Also are they in favor to replacing this dictator with another pro-Trump one? Current US president have a weak spot for every dictator and authoritarian leader in the world: El Salvador, Russia, Hungary, etc. Might be not the best candidate to deal with dictators... | | |
| ▲ | leesalminen 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So Maria machado, the recipient of the Nobel peace prize in 2025 is a would be dictator ? | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We have some interesting precedents to compare notes with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi That did not quite go according to plan either. Definitely not a dictatorship but not exactly clean and the end result is not so far off from where they started. Venezuela could easily end up worse than it is today. | |
| ▲ | SXX 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why do you believe some civil opposition leader will end up im power after foreign military intervention? Usually people who end up in power are ones best at shooting others invluding shooting civil politicians. |
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| ▲ | hsiudh 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Also are they in favor to replacing this dictator with another pro-Trump one? When your options are being poor, starved to death or dissapeared during the last 25 years, you take any chance for a change |
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| ▲ | sigwinch 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | María Corina Machado believes this. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2025. Attacking Venezuela would still be illegal, but it would achieve her aims. | |
| ▲ | pksebben 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We really need a decent channel to petition other countries, as the US public. Maybe we could write on a legal pad and hold it up in the rear window as we pass them on the highway. | | |
| ▲ | komali2 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or you could make like the French and actually do something about the death and destruction your nation subjects the rest of the planet to. | | |
| ▲ | saubeidl 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's funny how the French are portrayed as cowards in American popular culture, when in reality the French would've gotten the guillotines out already while the Americans... cower. | | |
| ▲ | 1718627440 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > It's funny how the French are portrayed as cowards Are they? Where does that come from? | | |
| ▲ | komali2 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | It used to be I guess a slur, "surrender monkeys," because France surrendered during WWII and there was a Nazi-collaborator government established filled with French politicians. It's unfair given the reality and importance of the French resistance, but, that's where it comes from. | | |
| ▲ | pksebben 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | That one was the brits if I'm not mistaken - Jeremy Clarkson specifically (who I have a lot of affection for - Top Gear was a significant part of my childhood, but he does make an art out of being offensively wrong). | | |
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| ▲ | pksebben 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | not even a joke, we're skipping the 4th and celebrating bastille day this year. Ten days apart and the food and drink are just better. | |
| ▲ | ekianjo 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Certainly not the current French, though. | | |
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| ▲ | YouAreWRONGtoo 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | LightBug1 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You have to own it at this stage. Even if you didn't vote for it. Particularly as that tangerine is in for a second innings. All the world wants to hear is what you're doing to fight the situation, not that it's not your fault. Thanks |