| > But I’d hope you’d fight for the safety of your family and neighbors. Thats literally all it means to be in the idf for most. This is a perpetual situation, given that Israel's pattern of territorial expansion is always military control over a new area, followed by settlement building. Since now there is a settlement with colonists living in it, now the same starting argument of "defending family and neighbours" applies, since you now need a "buffer zone" to keep the colonists safe, requiring more military control over a new area. Rinse and repeat, and Israelis are always in a situation to be forced to fight "for the safety of their family and neighbours". How convenient. |
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| ▲ | whimsicalism 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | What Israel is doing is wrong, but the notion of ‘intentionally cultivating enemies’ seems pretty obviously ahistorical. | | |
| ▲ | xorcist 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It might be a reference to Netanyahu and other high ranking people of Likud who has supported of Hamas for decades, both directly and indirectly via Qatar. It is uncontroversial and there is even a well researched Wikipedia article, but for obvious reasons only include what has happened in the open. Not taking part of Israel's politics, it was a bit surprising that this hasn't been more controversial but politics in the entire region is complicated, I guess. After all, the corruption in the prime minister's office did cause protests when it was exposed so clearly people care. | | |
| ▲ | stevenhuang a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree the situation is very complicated. From what I read, the support for Hamas was in the form of peace payments, which have backfired. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... | | |
| ▲ | j_maffe a day ago | parent [-] | | No, it's to futher divide up the palestinians. Netenyahu himself has said so. | | |
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| ▲ | bsaul 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | j_maffe a day ago | parent | next [-] | | This is just some combination of a strawman and ad hominum. I'm sure you can come up with a better argument than that. | |
| ▲ | the_af a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is not true. There are plenty of people horrified with both Israel and Hamas, and that while sympathizing with the plight of the Palestinians, think Hamas is hurting their chances of a peaceful solution. Many people think Israel's right-wing and Hamas need each other, a kind of symbiosis. (Netanyahu certainly needs Hamas to exist). Of course, the Israeli right wing wants to paint any opposition as pro Hamas anti semites. It's a time tested tactic. | |
| ▲ | matsemann a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, virtually no one is supporting Hamas. Stop parroting that. Please allow me to be against genocide without accusing me of supporting a terrorist regime. It's dishonest. Thanks. |
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| ▲ | nailer 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They’ve made peace with: Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, the UAE and Saudi. Hamas started the war because they were threatened by that. So no they don’t cultivate enemies. Islamists that hate Jews for not being part of their empire hate them. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Of course the other side of that is that Israel hasn't exactly been kind to the Palestinians. They've been Annexing land in the West Bank and blockading Gaza for what now seems like forever. I can certainly understand why Palestinians might be pissed, even if some of their tactics are abhorrent. | | |
| ▲ | whimsicalism 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | this is true, but i find it difficult to earnestly believe there would be some sizable decrease in violence in the counterfactual with no Gaza blockade. Settlements, sure. | | |
| ▲ | j_maffe a day ago | parent [-] | | Well since their land got invaded, houses stolen and demolished, burial grounds defiled, poisened with chemical weapons, ethnically dispelled, and crammed onto a piece of land the size of a city , I'd get why they'd still be pissed at the current state of affairs. This did not start on October 7th. | | |
| ▲ | nailer a day ago | parent [-] | | Arabs invaded and colonised Israel in 650. You can easily learn this from any textbook you like. Their land is 22 countries, the nearly entire middle east and north africa you can learn that for many map. Jews that were exiled to Iraq or Persia or Syria will be killed. You can learn this from any media you like that covers current affairs. You can also see that Gaza has many wide open spaces by looking at the satellite view on Google maps. People that wish to make a 23rd arab state and destroy the only Jewish state - as they proudly chant in the streets worldwide - generally propose doing this through violence you can learn this by looking at your own account history. | | |
| ▲ | bigyabai 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > generally propose doing this through violence Non-violence is also an option. It's Israel that generally objects to international oversight, secular governance or reparation deals. |
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| ▲ | immibis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | btw they just this week annexed another big chunk of Gaza | |
| ▲ | nailer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Israel won Judea and Samaria in a war they didn’t start. Arab nationalists are pissed they tried to destroy Israel and lost. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I dunno. I was a kid back then, but didn't the six day war start when Israel attacked Egyptian forces in the Sinai? | | | |
| ▲ | j_maffe a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hoping people see this comment when they think Israel are anything other than a war-mongering nation. | | |
| ▲ | nailer a day ago | parent [-] | | But they aren't a war mongering nation and the comment you are replying to specifically points this out - Arabs started the six days war war in 1967. | | |
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| ▲ | ekjhgkejhgk a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The person you're responding to is making reference to the fact that Netanyahu props up Hamas because it's beneficial to his government. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... | |
| ▲ | j_maffe a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They made peace with Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon by invading their lands (and attempting to annex them!) and then US forced their hands to make peace. Please mention the context of this great "peace" Israel has made. Israel's neighbors don't hate it solely because of antisemitism. | | |
| ▲ | immibis a day ago | parent [-] | | Idk man, that sounds like the reason is antisemitism. Why else would you oppose giving your land to Israel? |
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| ▲ | Cyph0n 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | And then subsequently ruined peace with 3/4 (Saudi never normalized). > Islamists that hate Jews for not being part of their empire hate them. That’s not even close to reality, but whatever helps you justify genocide I guess. | | |
| ▲ | SilverElfin 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Saudi didn’t normalize because Hamas prevented it. October 7 was designed to radicalize and prevent normalization of relations. You’re helping them by reframing a justifiable war of self defense against terrorists as a “genocide”. | | |
| ▲ | C6JEsQeQa5fCjE a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Saudi didn’t normalize because Hamas prevented it. October 7 was designed to radicalize and prevent normalization of relations Hamas prevented it because Israel has no free will? Israel is doomed to only react to Hamas? Israel had an option to preserve their normalization and gain and keep the sympathy of the entire world. Instead they prefered to do annihilation and genocide. | |
| ▲ | Cyph0n 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, they didn’t normalize, so they’re irrelevant to the peace equation floated by the person I replied to. So a genocidal campaign to level Gaza and cleanse it of its human anima- oops, I meant people, expand settlements in the WB, and occupy southern Lebanon and Syria in pursuit of a “Greater Israel” is self-defense. Makes total sense. |
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| ▲ | zenf 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | nailer 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | Cyph0n 2 days ago | parent [-] | | If you have an open mind & are arguing in good faith - which based on your wording is probably not the case - then I will respond to your points. Not wasting my time otherwise given that we’re two years into this calamity. |
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| ▲ | WrongAssumption 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is that a position you've been in before? If so is that what you did? |
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