He just likes to argue to death as if his life depended on it. I picture him as an annoying, relentless mosquito.

You mean facts like that capacity factor is 10-20% of the produced TWh which is a physical measure already adjusted for capacity factor?

  > The problem is that we can’t be wasting money and opportunity cost that could have larger impact decarbonizing

  > on handouts from tax money to new built nuclear power.

1) You don't seem to be applying this same measure to other energy sources like renewables, storage, and so on.

2) "Government money" works differently than "people money". I am not the best person to explain this but I'll summarize what my girlfriend and her dad constantly say, both having PhDs in economics (who teach this stuff and work with governments) "An economist can only tell you how much something costs, not if you should do it or if the results are worth the cost." Like a economist can tell you how much a hospital will cost and how many lives it might save, but at the end of the day they can't tell you if that's the right choice or not.

# Costs

You really should check out the Lazard report[0]. They get pretty detailed.

Jump to page 8 and you'll see a table like this (let's see how well I can format this here lol. Won't look nice on mobile)

  Solar (Comm & C&I)            $81----------------------$217
  Solar (Util)          $38----$78
  Solar + Stor (Util)      $50-------------$131
  GeoTherm                   $66-------$109
  Wind (OnShore)       $37--------$86
  Wind+Stor (On)          $44------------$123
  Wind (OffShore)             $70----------------$157
  Gas                                $108^5  $149-----------------------$251
  Nuclear             $34^5                $141--$169^6--$200  $228^6
  Gas Comb Cyc       $31^5 $48-----$107^7-$109

  ^5: Reflects cot of opperating fully depreciated facilities, includes decommissioning, salvage, restoration
  ^6: Based on Vogtle nuclear power plant with "learning curve" being ~30% between units 3&4. Based on 70 year lifespan

  1) *Existing Nuclear* is the cheapest zero-carbon source
  2) Vogtle is Lazard's *ONLY* source of data for new nuclear
    2.1) Removing the "Learning Curve" costs from Vogtle puts competitive with renewables ($118-$160)
    2.2) Including the "Learning Curve" Vogtle is already competitive with rooftop solar 
  3) (Page 9) Renewable prices are much cheaper thanks to subsidies.
    3.1) Solar
         $81-$217 --> $51-$178
         $38-$78  --> $20-$57
         $50-$131 --> $33-$111
    3.2) Same for wind but you can look
    3.3) *NOTE* Trump is ending subsidies

  > The problem is that the setting nuclear power makes sense

There's no free lunch!

# "[Costs] can't tell you if that's the right choice or not"

And that's the reason I said what I said! You both are vastly oversimplifying things to the point where you think there's one right answer. THERE ISN'T. The whole point of the renewables movement isn't to make cheap electricity, it is *to make the environment better* while still producing the energy we need and at affordable prices. If this was just a price discussion then we wouldn't be where we are and gas and coal would be the cheapest option. *BUT we care about the environment*. Not just the carbon in the air, but the carbon in the ocean, the animals it impacts, the forests and lands (both of which are also a vital part of natural carbon sequestration!), and making the planet a better place not just for humans but all life.

Get out of your internet armchair and go find out what actual experts are saying. Not the dumb science communicators on YouTube. Not the clickbait like "IFuckingLoveScience". Go watch lectures online. Go watch lectures in person! I don't know how to tell you this, but you can straight up email any professor at any university. People respond! Not only that, but you can go sit in on their classes (I'd suggest you ask first, but nobody fucking takes attendance). Go grab actual books (those people will recommend those books to you too!).

Take your passion for arguing on the internet and make sure it is at least equal to the passion you have for learning about the actual subject matter. If your love of arguing is greater than your love of the actual subject then I promise you, you are harming the very community you believe you are fighting for. You can even go ahead and ask those same people I'm requesting you reach out to and I'm sure plenty will tell you the same. I mean for Christ's sake, you got so caught up in me calling you out that you didn't even recognize I called out the person you were arguing with and instead put me into the same bucket! Clearly putting me in the same bucket as mpweiher is a categorical mistake!

[0] https://www.lazard.com/media/eijnqja3/lazards-lcoeplus-june-...

> Now those prices for intermittent wind exclude the cost of providing backup power with gas

Yes, let's just handwave those concerns away, it's not like the grid needs power 100% of the time or anything. Two weeks without wind? No problem, just burn gas :) It's so cheap, independent of foreign supply, doesn't leak out of pipes and isn't a huge environmental hazard at all.

The Finnish reactor had one delay because the concrete used for the containment building wasn't of the 'nuclear grade'. That's why those regulations thankfully exist.

Building more will help though. This whole thread started about how we had lost important knowledge