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josephg 2 days ago

Well yeah! A Nintendo switch or PlayStation is technically similar to an iPhone. But you can’t make the same monopolistic dealing argument there as you can on phones.

Why? Because a console is bought as a gaming device. And because you can reasonably have multiple consoles and there’s healthy competition between them.

In comparison, people buy a phone to have a phone. Then the App Store lock-in is tacked on the side. iPhone and Android compete on who has the best cameras. But once you’ve bought your phone, you’re trapped in the manufacturer’s App Store, who can charge monopolistic pricing. And normal people don’t buy multiple phones for different app stores.

The App Store monopoly is like if your electricity company somehow made it so you could only buy an Xbox. Games on steam and PlayStation aren’t compatible with the electricity in your house. And your friend down the street could only use a PlayStation. Not for any technical reason, but simply because locking you in to a single console manufacturer means they can make you pay way more for games. And you’ll pay it, because you don’t have a choice and can’t shop around.

The problem comes about because phones and app stores are glued together. They use a captive market created by one part of the business to trap consumers and developers elsewhere. If Google and Apple had to compete on app stores - like how Nintendo, PlayStation and Microsoft have to compete - then there’s no way Apple could get away with charging their extortionate 28% for App Store sales. If chrome charged a 28% commission on all purchases I made through the browser, everyone would switch to Firefox. Apps on my phone should be more like that.

mbg721 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I bought a console as a gaming device, but now my family mostly use it for YouTube and other streaming video. Similarly, relatively little of my phone time is used on phone calls. I think the distinction is mostly just locked in by history.

johnnyanmac 2 days ago | parent [-]

If you wanted a dedicated streaming device, the competition is much cheaper.

But sure, nothing on a technical lecdl stops you from using a console as a general computer. It's just that that's not what the overwhelming use is as of now. Use cases play a large factor in rulings like this.

josephg 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, its not just "games vs phones". The question is whether or not the company's actions unfairly stifle competition. Nintendo / sony / etc would argue there's lots of competition, because you can just buy their competitor's product if you think they provide a better service. The argument is weaker for apple because its much harder for regular people to "just" swap their phone between ios / android over differences in the app stores.

Consoles compete on games. Phones compete on specs, and then they happen to have an app store on the side. Thats a difference.

pjmlp 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ah, so I can buy XBox games from the PlayStation store?

Naturally not, Microsoft has to pay the Sony tax to publish their games into the PlayStation.

There are more mobile devices than people, since not everyone has a phone, naturally there are enough people with multiple phones.

Finally, people do browse the Internet, watch TV, and even have a general app store in XBox's case.

heavyset_go 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, the consoles should be open, too.

josephg 2 days ago | parent [-]

Sure; I’d love it if they were. But there’s another, legally much stronger reason to hate on Apple for their locked down App Store that has nothing to do with engineering.

tuna74 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You also NEED a modern phone to function in modern society.

mbg721 2 days ago | parent [-]

Mainly because of 2-factor authentication. If my phone breaks, I can't work.

0x457 2 days ago | parent [-]

You don't need a phone for most 2-factor methods. Also, you don't need iOS to receive a text message. It's very rare that I have to grab my phone for MFA.

Razengan 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

All these mental gymnastics to wring consoles out of the arguments against phones.. seriously what the fuck

Consoles run more "commodity hardware" than phones, like CPUs and GPUs and standard ports etc.

Rohansi 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Consoles run more "commodity hardware" than phones, like CPUs and GPUs and standard ports etc.

Not really. They share CPU/GPU architecture but there are significant differences vs. what you can buy for a PC. For example, the latest PlayStation and Xbox use unified GDDR memory and commodity CPUs all use (LP)DDR.

However, you can buy systems that use the same (or similar) chips as phones these days. Snapdragon, Apple Silicon, SBCs?

josephg 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

My point is the argument against apples monopolistic practices isn’t a technical argument. It’s a legal / social one.

For what it’s worth, I agree with the argument that if I buy a computer it should let me run arbitrary code. But there’s no laws against that. There are laws about monopolies. I see that as a much stronger way to attack Apple over their behaviour here.

Razengan a day ago | parent [-]

There are 2 major phone ecosystems (Android manufacturers count as Android)

There are 3 console ecosystems.

Such difference. wow

josephg 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Whoosh. You have completely missed my point.