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jack_tripper 2 days ago

I get your point, but looking at it at a glance without any other context, 12% feels like a pretty reasonable amount IMHO.

Like, if all major marketplaces only charge 12% from the get-go, we probably would have had much less fuss and lawsuits over this.

This issue was always the disproportionate size of the fee, not the fact that they charge a fee.

ryandrake 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think a percentage makes any sense at all. Is it proportionately more expensive to host a $50 game than a $25 game? It's only a percentage Because They Can.

mrandish 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I agree. Charging a blanket percentage of gross revenue is an extremely inexact way to monetize what is a broad basket of services that were previously separate including: electronic software delivery, software security verification, marketplace, transaction processing, DRM, etc. Since 2009, first on Apple's app store and then Google's, these services have all been arbitrarily bundled together despite having vastly different one-time, fixed and variable costs. People are only used to it in this context where every marketplace has been controlled by a monopolist gatekeeper.

Doing it this way makes no economic sense for either the seller or the buyer but it's coincidentally the absolute best way for a middleman to maximize the tax they can extract from a two-sided marketplace they control. In competitive markets, blanket taxing on total gross revenue generally only occurs when there's a single fundamental cost structure tied to that revenue, or the amounts being collected are so small it's de minimis. App stores are highly profitable, multi-billion dollar businesses.

Perhaps the most perverse thing about this is that electronic transactions for purely digital goods which occur entirely on real-time connected digital platforms make it trivial to price each service for maximum efficiency. It's easy for the price a 2GB game with frequent updates pays for electronic delivery to reflect the cost they impose on the infrastructure while a 100k one-time purchase app can pay a vastly smaller amount. And that's exactly the way the competitive marketplaces evolve - from moving shipping containers around the planet to residential propane delivery.

dfex 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm by no means defending the percentage they take, but I would suggest that it's a percentage because it's simple:

Pick 3 imaginary games for sale priced at $1, $10 and $100. Any one of those games could be a million download a month success, and any one of them could be a complete dud.

What flat rate would you suggest to:

* Pay the developer for their work (ongoing per sale)

* Review each game and ensure it meets store guidelines (once per update)

* Host said game regardless of how popular it is (ongoing)

* Process transactions for the game (ongoing)

The alternative would be pricing based on revenue tiers (similar to what Unreal Engine does now), which aren't known in advance and don't take global variance into account (USD$200 in Eastern Europe might be a month's salary).

Percentage is just simpler. It also means that they'd be taking a loss on every free app or in the case of Free-to-Download In-App purchase apps - until users start transacting.

pabs3 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Personally I would rather transparent pricing. For each service the store offers, add a cost of appropriate type and value for that.

johnnyanmac 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well it's based on sales, not cost. In theory, a more popular game is a larger stress on servers, so charging them more makes sense.

The scaling also helps so that some (probably most) games aren't losing money to be hosted kn a store. That would be catastrophic as at some point games would need to remove themselves to name financial sense.

gruez 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>It's only a percentage Because They Can.

Do you object to other sorts of royalty-based compensation, like for Unity engine or Unreal engine?

oblio 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yes. No to rent seeking.

There should be caps overall and under the caps there should be the option to choose between lump sum and royalties.

Nobody should be collecting unlimited revenue for a brilliant idea at the start and benefit from cheap or free scaling.

This entire model is ripping apart the fabric of modern society.

And yes, I known this is blasphemy on this website.

jack_tripper 2 days ago | parent [-]

Why isn't this applied to income taxes first? Does the government deserve a percentage with no cap of whatever you make? Your government services don't get better for you the more you pay.

oblio a day ago | parent [-]

That is the hill you want to die on? The fact that at income levels greatly above the median income, taxes aren't capped?

You should look at it the other way, where ANY income or income equivalent, of any kind, should be taxed like income.

So when Bezos spends $5bn per year, that means he made $5bn per year (at least), so his tax statement should show him paying $2bn or whatever the top tax rate would imply.

earthnail 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On consoles, a review costs several grands. That’s the alternative.

lostlogin 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This.

If something gets super popular, it presumable costs Epic more. But does 100 sales cost 100x more than 1 sale? That seems unlikely.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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TylerE 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s proportionally more expensive to run a credit card charge for twice the amount, yes.

GeekyBear 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If Epic deserves a 12% cut of a Windows game sold through their store (despite not having paid the costs associated with developing and maintaining Windows) how large a cut should you get when you did incur the additional costs of creating and maintaining the platform?

oblio 2 days ago | parent [-]

The cut should definitely not such that your profit margin for the service is a multiple of your costs.

GeekyBear 2 days ago | parent [-]

So where does 12% fall when you provide nothing but optional DRM, hosting and payment processing?

Does Microsoft earn their 30% cut on Xbox since they do provide the OS, hardware development and gaming APIs?

bigyabai 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> So where does 12% fall

Wherever competing services drive it. If Epic can charge 90% margins while remaining attractive to users, more power to them.

> Does Microsoft earn their 30% cut on Xbox

It's an irrelevant comparison. No serious person can accuse Microsoft of having a gaming monopoly.

setopt 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

How about making it 10%? As a modern-day "tithe".