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markus_zhang 2 days ago

I had a wonderful retro futuristic dream about an automated Costco warehouse a few weeks ago. It was one of the less weird dreams so I still remember it clearly.

Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can press a button to rotate the samples, observe them, and place an order by pressing a button. Samples not chosen are temporarily stocked at the window as a “stack”.

In each closed section, there are humans who monitors and maintains the robots, and occasionally fetch samples when robots stop working (hopefully it too often, you know those 9s).

At the exit, a human worker assembles the packages and hand them to the customers with a smile. Customers have a last chance to return unwanted items.

Why was it a retro futuristic dream? Because the customers have the option to go into a bakery to enjoy a cup of coffee/tea, some cake and socialize with fellow customers. All of them looked like the men and women from advertisement from Fallout 4.

I’d like to shop or even help build one of these.

Animats 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

What you've re-invented is Keydoozle, from 1937.[1] This was the first automated grocery store. Three stores were opened, but there were enough mechanical problems that it didn't work well.

[1] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/keedoozle-automated-store-p...

dredmorbius a day ago | parent | next [-]

There were also automats, automated restaurants serving all food through a vending machine (or more accurately, wall). Classically all for a single fixed price (a nickle).

These are featured in several cultural references, such as the 1962 Delbert Mann film That Touch of Mink, and PDQ Bach's "Concerto for Horn and Hardart" (being named after a prominent New York City automat chain).

Mink: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Y3GXMB4VPY8>

Concerto: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=NT6bxlnS1Is>

mapt a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And what some of us might not have the context for, is that grocery stores at the time were usually clerk-serviced; Just like you don't pump your own gas in New Jersey, at the time the norm was that you handed the clerk a list of products and they fetched them from the shelves for you.

Arguably this model has a great deal of compatibility with robotic compact storage, especially in high-land-value areas.

l72 a day ago | parent [-]

And surprisingly, it was actually Piggly Wiggly that was the first grocery store to open up their warehouse and allow customers to self-service! [1]

> Piggly Wiggly was the first self-service grocery store.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggly_Wiggly#History

dredmorbius a day ago | parent [-]

And both PW and Keedoozle were launched by Clarence Saunders (touched on in the history link you give, more under his bio page):

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Saunders>

markus_zhang a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wow, this man was decades ahead of his time. My hat off.

hypercube33 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thank you for that rabbit hole. Interesting that the same guy gave us both of the present day shopping systems just one was too far ahead

system2 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Incredible, they were 75 years ahead of their time.

Terr_ 2 days ago | parent [-]

That kinda stuff is why I'm an incrementalist, as opposed to "Great Man" theories of civilization. A big impressive product or leap-forward is mostly luck and thousands of cascading preconditions on small improvements everywhere else, and often not even the first person to try.

It's not hard to imagine that if a fundamentally similar store today that took the world by storm, there would be a profusion of news stories asserting that the founder is a genius visionary, with nary a peep for Clarence Saunders et al.

Gud a day ago | parent [-]

But if the technology is not ready to be implemented yet, was it really a genius level idea?

Here’s my idea: instant teleportation.

I expect to be credited

wongarsu a day ago | parent [-]

I think that's kind of the point: there are no "genius ideas", at least not at the level and frequency popularly portrayed. If teleportation isn't feasible then the idea isn't genius. If teleportation is feasible, then using it for transporting humans isn't genius, it's incredibly obvious.

Or to give a real-world example: The Wright brothers did some great work on making aircraft steerable and doing wind-tunnel tests, but working planes were mostly a product of ICE engines finally reaching sufficient power-to-weight ratios, not of the Wright brothers being unique geniuses. In a long line of people trying to build heavier-than-air aircraft they were simply the first to have access to the necessary technology to make it work

seanmcdirmid 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like the old general store model, you didn’t browse yourself, the shop keep would bring out what you wanted, it was always behind the counter. I experienced this in China when I started visiting in 1999/early 2000s, it’s mostly not like that anymore though. You still have department stores where you need to buy things first before touching them, though.

Scoundreller 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Had a large-format (for its time) chain store in Canada like that until 1996: https://www.tvo.org/article/what-happened-to-consumers-distr...

Basically a catalogue store without shipping to your door.

seanmcdirmid 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Oh Service Merchandise was a thing in the USA also, where I was living at in Mississippi at least. It was basically catalog focused store with a showroom.

IKEA is kind of like that also, but you have to get everything yourself after picking it out upstairs. And Sears might have been like this at some point before I was born.

chairmansteve 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Argos in the UK was similar. You would go into the store and look up the product in a catalog. Then go to counter and order it, wait 2-5 minutes and they give you the product. I found it quite convenient.

georgefrowny a day ago | parent | next [-]

Screwfix do this too. Just a counter with a handful of staff who go and get your items.

If you pre-order it's waiting at the desk. Very handy for people who can order from the job site on the account and send the lad round to grab it.

And a (relatively) unshittified website too because if jobbing tradies can't use the damn thing because it's too loaded down with ads and bullshit, they just won't.

walthamstow a day ago | parent [-]

Screwfix is an all-round excellent consumer experience, for DIY or trade. The reviews on the website are often hilarious as well.

rsynnott a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They're still there. Was surprised to run into one recently when I was in London (they pulled out of Ireland a while back, and I'd assumed they'd just closed totally at that point, because it _does_ feel like an increasingly marginalised business model.)

lmm 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

They still exist. Tend to be pretty competitive on price, although they must be losing out to online shopping in a lot of places since they don't offer any showroom advantage.

adaml_623 2 days ago | parent [-]

In my experience because you're picking up from the Argos you can do an instant return if you realize you ordered wrong (or the item is rubbish). Not perfect but a good way to get your hands on the product with an easy refund option

lytfyre 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Little bit more specialized, but Lee Valley Tools [https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca] stores seem to still operate this way. Showroom (and a few computer kiosks) and order forms up front, then line up for them to pull the items from the back.

markus_zhang 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Reading the history of Consumers (thanks, I never knew this existed):

>In the 1990s, Consumers Distributing struggled to compete with Zellers and then Walmart Canada. Consumers Distributing sought bankruptcy protection in 1996.

And Zellers went under just a few years ago...

bdangubic 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I had hair when Zellers went under

wild_egg 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Sorry to say but 2013 was more than a few years ago...

markus_zhang a day ago | parent [-]

Oh I must have some bad memory unit…

noisy_boy a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most of small town India is this. Small store, one person, usually owner or their family member, doing everything.

onraglanroad a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Indeed. Always handy if you needed four candles.

ch4s3 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You'll obviously buy fewer things that way, and I can't see that making business sense.

markus_zhang 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, that could be true. I'm not sure how many people are similar to me, who are allergic to "window shopping" and just want to buy, pay and exit. My Costco session is less than 30 minutes (from parking to back to car) in average.

I do research price, though, so if they show a big DISCOUNT sign and is more or less honest with it, I'll probably grab some, too.

cmckn 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like a lot of waiting around, versus just browsing the aisles. Maybe today’s consumers need to rediscover cash-and-carry, though.

markus_zhang 2 days ago | parent [-]

In the dream customers just walk around and make orders. It’s actually old style I think, but with robots. Yeah it’s a bit like cash and carry, but customers didn’t move into the sections. They just get to browse the samples robots carried to them.

TBH, now that I think about it, the dream was way more vague than what I described in the reply. My brain probably reasoned about the idea subconsciously.

pirate787 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That was Best store in the 1980s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Products

klooney 2 days ago | parent [-]

In my home town, they tore the Best down and replaced it with a Best Buy, which was very confusing.

whynotmaybe 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Something like this?

https://www.untappedcities.com/automats-cafeterias-nyc/

markus_zhang 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, something like this.

The only exception in warehouse was the cafeteria. I guess my brain wanted to make something retro futuristic so it made the cafeteria “retro” — manned by humans and cooked by humans too. There were even balloons inside now that I recall…

tdeck 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you wish to experience more futuristic fever dreams, I present the Dahir Insaat YouTube channel:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc_6wfDYuFU

CPLX 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’ve just described B&H in New York City.

aerostable_slug 2 days ago | parent [-]

Now I'm picturing Hasidic robots.

defrost 2 days ago | parent [-]

Being pushed about on trolleys and puppeteered by gentiles every Shabbat?

vkou 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You've reinvented the Soviet grocery store, but with robots instead of people and with a $7 cup of coffee.

markus_zhang 2 days ago | parent [-]

I remember those stores as I came from a similar background. One vital difference is that they all have workers who have a straight face and don’t give it a fuck about customer service.

Then in the 90s they were all washed away by the new ones.

rimbo789 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

That sounds truly terrible.