| ▲ | 0manrho 2 days ago |
| From an accessibility/localization stand point, icons+text everywhere seems to be ideal. Also, I disagree with: > This posture lends itself to a practice where designers have an attitude of “I need an icon to fill up this space” Sure, that does technically happen, but is in no way preventative or mutually exclusive with the follow on thought: > Does ... the cognitive load of parsing and understanding it, help or hurt how someone would use this menu system? That still happens, because if they mismatch an icon with text, that can result in far worse cognitive load/misunderstanding than if no icon was present at all. This becomes readily apparent in his follow on thought experiment where you show someone a menu with icons+text, but "censor" the text. Icons+text is also superior to [occasionally icons]+text in the same thought experiment. From my perspective, the author just argued against their own preference there. I'd argue that the thought process behind determining an appropriate icon is even more important and relevant when being consistent and enforcing icon+text everywhere, not diminished. It also has the broadest possible appeal (to the visual/graphically focused, to the literary focused, to those who either may not speak the language, and/or to those who are viewing the menu with a condensed/restrictive viewport that doesn't have room for the full text). Now, if the argument is predicated on "We aren't willing to pay a designer for this" then yeah, they have a point. Except they used Apple as an example so, doubt that was the premise. |
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| ▲ | dmayle 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| I used to manage a team working on the news feed at Facebook (main page). We did extensive experimentation, and later user studies to find out that there are roughly three classes of people: 1) Those that use interface items with text
2) Those that use interface items with icons
3) Those that use interface items with both text and icons. I forget details on the user research, but the mental model I walked away with this that these items increase "legibility" for people, and by leaving either off, you make that element harder to use. If you want an interface that is truly usable, you should strive to use both wherever possible, and ideally when not, try to save in ways that reduce the mental load less (e.g. grouping interface by theme, and cutting elements from only some of the elements in that theme, to so that some of the extra "legibility" carries over from other elements in the group) |
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| ▲ | tvbusy 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Sounds like me:
1. For new UI/tool, I depend on text to navigate.
2. Once I'm more familiar, I scan using icons first then text to confirm.
3. With enough time, I use just icons.
4. Why the ** do they keep moving it/changing the icons? | |
| ▲ | stronglikedan a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Those that use interface items with icons This is the bane of my existence since icons aren't standardized* and the vast majority of people suck at designing intuitive ones. (*there are ISO standard symbols but most designers are too "good" to use them) | | |
| ▲ | specialist a day ago | parent [-] | | Cite cliché about the only intuitive user interface is the nipple; everything else is learned. Having done my share of UI work, my value system transitioned from esthetics to practicalities. Such as "can you describe it?" Because siloed UI, independent of docs, training and tech supp, is awful. All validated by usability testing, natch. It's hard to maintain strong opinions UI after users shred your best efforts. Humilitating. Having said all that... If stock icons work (with target user base), I'm all for using them. PS I do have one strong opinion: less is more. |
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| ▲ | virgil_disgr4ce a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hooray, actual user research and data!! This is what I tell all my clients: "We can speculate all day long, but we don't have to. The users will tell us the correct answer in about 5 minutes." It's amazing that even in a space like this, of ostensibly highly analytical folks, people still get caught up arguing over things that can be settled immediately with just a little evidence. |
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| ▲ | drdeadringer 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| After my stroke 3 years ago, I find myself in a place meeting accessibility. So the icons are helpful. I cannot necessarily read the text. |
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| ▲ | trollbridge 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | What isn't so helpful though is the classic Google Sheets example where it has three different options (Delete Row, Delete Column, etc.) but all with an identical "trashcan" icon. | | |
| ▲ | TiredOfLife a day ago | parent [-] | | I immediately see that block as something to do with deleting stuff. If I don't need deleting is ski if i need i look closer |
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| ▲ | jasonvorhe 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Can you associate the symbols shown in the post with the text blurred out to their individual meaning? | |
| ▲ | petesergeant 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Genuinely curious if the item types in as shown in the article are that helpful though. They seem small, fiddly, hard to distinguish between, and not especially intuitive. | | |
| ▲ | breppp 2 days ago | parent [-] | | did not undergo a stroke, but I find myself often navigating menu by memorizing the location in the menu, I also use the icons for memorizing and then I can speed up by not reading. The first time I noticed that is the time I needed to operate a Finnish Windows machine and I could get it working pretty good by sheer memory | | |
| ▲ | troupo a day ago | parent [-] | | Then I'd argue that not having icons on every item in the menu, and having groups/separators helps more than just having nearly indistinguishable icons everywhere | | |
| ▲ | breppp a day ago | parent [-] | | maybe, but over use of groups can also be confusing I find icons helpful to visually anchor things in the menu. It can be noisy when there are 5 identical "paste as" icons but generally I see it as a positive |
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| ▲ | quamserena 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, I agree. Maybe if you’re a fast reader icons don’t do much, but for people who are illiterate (20% of America) they figure out how to use tech by memorizing the icons and locations of buttons. |
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| ▲ | inejge 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There's illiteracy, and there's functional illiteracy. They're not the same, and people often confuse the two. A literally illiterate person (ha!) wouldn't make headway with almost any realistic computer interface, icons or not. The 20% statistic is about people who have great trouble reading and comprehending simple sentences, not discerning individual words. It's tragic and debilitating, but such people could muddle through a simple interface with textual labels. A truly illiterate person couldn't. | |
| ▲ | sbarre 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is this just your belief presented as fact, or do you have some data to back this up? (Not the literacy stat but the fact that illiterate people "figure out how to use tech by memorizing the icons and locations of buttons"). | | |
| ▲ | Arch485 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, if you're unable to read, you're not going to figure out what the buttons do by reading the textual labels :p Further, if you have difficulty reading, it's easier to parse the meaning of an abstract symbol, so you'd use that instead of a textual label when available. (I say this as someone who is a really slow reader. I use icons when I can) | |
| ▲ | mercury4063 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Watch a small child use a computer. |
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| ▲ | lopis 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| But also from an accessibility stand point, providing users with affordances to remove distractions (animations, transitions, and yes, icons) should be an option. But I disagree with the author that the default should be less icons. |
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| ▲ | echelon 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I feel like icons subconsciously turn O(n*m) into O(log n). Without icons, you have to read many or most of the words. Without text labels, icons are difficult or even impossible to interpret. But with both icons and text, you have quick visual search and filtering that involves the whole brain. |