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Word spacing(en.wikipedia.org)
30 points by doener 4 days ago | 32 comments
piskov an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Instead of that sorry excuse of an article, here is the proper long-read about spaces.

Albeit in Russian, all modern browsers support live translation — should be fine.

https://type.today/ru/journal/spaces

Update: in English https://type.today/en/journal/spaces

BTW typography is very important to Russian designers and developers.

Many install special typography layout (with “right alt” layer for the symbols) to always enter correct m-dashes, quotes, and what have you.

https://ilyabirman.ru/typography-layout/

There is even an ongoing meme with a woman crying “I don’t deserve such treatment, that’s how I’ve always written” when her flawless typography was considered ChatGPT in the making:

https://youtube.com/shorts/IrhFP67-_vA?si=n9UICaRQ9ZiUyVuT

thesuitonym 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Wikipedia articles, and encyclopedia articles in general, are not meant to be "proper long-read" articles. They're meant to be short, descriptive passages that give you enough of an overview to know what the subject is, and directions on where to find more information should you want it. This is not a sorry excuse, it's just the nature of what an encyclopedia is.

piskov 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

Nah, that was just sloppy.

Dashes article is ok though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash

derleyici 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

FYI, you don't even need browser translation. The piece already has an English version available. There's a language toggle in the navigation bar, and the English version is here: https://type.today/en/journal/spaces

Also, liked the article!

pinkmuffinere 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is fascinating! At the same time, this wikipedia article is of surprisingly low quality, with sentences like

> It is hard to determine how much spacing should be put in between words, but a good typographer is able to determine proper spacing.[3]

> Since the fifteenth century, the best work shows that text is to be read smoothly and efficiently.[4]

> Two other gentlemen have expressed different opinions on what the space between words should be.

thesuitonym 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I thought it was weirdly written, too. Why is the CSS property that controls it worth mentioning in the opening paragraph, and wtf is "standardized digital typography"?

contingencies 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly the same sentences grated here. It is the subjective passed off as the objective, passed on with a tone of false authority. A surprisingly large majority of public communications fall in to this category. Mastering this puffery, usually for the express purpose of swaying the wills of lesser minds or pressing buttons in funding and grant processes, grants you the reigns of bureaucracy and a career in corporate, public or international relations. A horrible way to waste a life.

ralferoo 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's lots of questionable stuff on this page. I particularly objected to this which clearly isn't true in most English speech:

"Word spacing is crucial for the written form because it illustrates the sound of speech where audible gaps or pauses take place."

If I were reading it aloud, even for a presentation, the spaces between morphemes would be more like this:

"Wordspacing iscru'cial forthewri'ttenform be'cause itill'ustrates thesoun'dofspeech where audiblegaps or pauses takeplace."

where a ' is a shorted pause than a space. The length of the ' isn't really long enough to be called out as a pause, but it's definitely longer than between words which frequently run directly into the next.

Spacing is important, but it's as an aid to parsing a written sentence at speed, and almost nothing to do with showing the pauses between morphemes.

kccqzy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I actually like the interpunct way better (which I first saw when I visited Italy and saw historical carvings): instead⸱of⸱putting⸱spaces⸱you⸱put⸱a⸱small⸱dot⸱between⸱words⸱instead.

Terr_ 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nowadays I only see/use the middle dot to cla⸱ri⸱fy syl⸱la⸱bles in lyr⸱ics.

mrsvanwinkle 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I love that better! I was also just in Italy recently and you made me double take this tablet hanging on a canopy in one of the peregrination churches and they ARE interpuncts but for names only

piskov an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would you use visible noise for something that should be void

vntok 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why should it be void?

piskov 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

Look into this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_(negative_space)

dhosek an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is still the standard in setting Ethiopic text

sempron64 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is for Latin. The Dead Sea Scrolls have clear spacing between the words. https://www.imj.org.il/en/wings/shrine-book/dead-sea-scrolls

The Talmud discusses the spacing between the words of the Bible: https://www.bible-researcher.com/hebrewtext1.html

wanderingstan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Related self promotion: this factoid about spaces, along with other fun slices in the evolution of writing, features in my decade-ago Ignite talk “For the love of letters”

https://youtu.be/g1Rko-LG6aY?si=SbLDRnORPnKiXCxu

Terr_ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Since we're already being picky about languages, that's not a factoid: Factoids are things which resemble facts, but aren't actually facts.

The whole -oid suffix, really. Asteroids aren't really stars, meteoroids aren't really meteors, androids aren't really men, spheroids aren't really spheres, factoids aren't really facts, etc.

mkehrt 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

http://communitiesofnativespeakerscantbewrongaboutwhatwordsm...

I'll add "factoid."

Terr_ 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Hypocrisy: That's just asserting a different community of native speakers are wrong.

For some of the samples on that site, it'd question whether they even have majority support as "correct", as opposed to simply being a popular mistake. (Do any polls exist? They content evades easy search-terms.)

aspenmayer 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> Factoids are things which resemble facts, but aren't actually facts.

I think you might be right but not definitively so: the Oxford dictionary has your definition, as does the New Oxford American dictionary which also lists the following as North American usage:

> a brief or trivial item of news or information

Terr_ 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, but that's the same lax descriptivist school that also tell you "literally" and "I could care less" should somehow be accepted as the exact opposites, they're just wrong. :p

Is it equally accepted for "peoples" to be possessive and "people's" to be plural? At what point does something that began as an unambiguous error become rescued by the popularity of the mistake?

aspenmayer 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

As we don’t have an official or authoritative body that determines “proper” English usage as other languages do, appealing to a dictionary strikes me as a mite better than prescriptivism or pedantry, though I don’t think was your intention either.

abdullahkhalids an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OT: Urdu, like Arabic/Persian, is written with an alphabet where letters can change shape based on whether they are at the start, middle or end of a "word" [1]. I say "word" because some letters don't have a middle form, so each actual word is broken into a sequence of composite-letter-shapes, where each composite shape start with such a no-middle-form letter.

A problem arises when one wants to write a compound word, which the last letter for the first word and the first letter of the second word must not be joined. To achieve this, the unicode standard has U+200C ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER character, which should be used in such compound words [2]. The standard SPACE character should not be used because it will create a physical space, while U+200C will create a break with no space.

However, typically Urdu keyboards don't have this character in them, so everyone ends up either using SPACE or just joining the words.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu_alphabet

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-width_non-joiner

delichon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Word spacing [creates] what Paul Sänger, in his book The Spaces between the Words, refers to as aerated text.

I like that term. I particularly enjoy a large amount of ventilation of code, with plenty of breezy white spaces after purposely short lines and between brief declarations.

msuniverse2026 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Weird that only Latin, Greek, and Irish is mentioned in the article.

eesmith an hour ago | parent [-]

Also English. ("In English, the ability to ...")

retentionissue 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And then 7 centuries later, whiskey came about and look how terrible things turned out.............

SideburnsOfDoom 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm told that things took a turn for the worse in 1649.

doener 4 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Via https://noc.social/@todayilearned/115665925876659478

m4rtink an hour ago | parent [-]

Japanese does not have spaces between words and it works just fine. ^_^

dhosek an hour ago | parent [-]

Ditto with Thai, Chinese, Lao, etc. I think Korean is the only east-asian script which uses word spacing. Given the late introduction of word spacing into writing, it’s almost more a surprise that scripts have it than don’t.