Remix.run Logo
ndiddy 8 hours ago

If you read the original JavaScript press release ( https://web.archive.org/web/20020808041248/http://wp.netscap... ), it's mainly intended as a language to write glue code so Java applets (where the real application logic would go) can interact with a webpage:

> With JavaScript, an HTML page might contain an intelligent form that performs loan payment or currency exchange calculations right on the client in response to user input. A multimedia weather forecast applet written in Java can be scripted by JavaScript to display appropriate images and sounds based on the current weather readings in a region. A server-side JavaScript script might pull data out of a relational database and format it in HTML on the fly. A page might contain JavaScript scripts that run on both the client and the server. On the server, the scripts might dynamically compose and format HTML content based on user preferences stored in a relational database, and on the client, the scripts would glue together an assortment of Java applets and HTML form elements into a live interactive user interface for specifying a net-wide search for information.

> "Programmers have been overwhelmingly enthusiastic about Java because it was designed from the ground up for the Internet. JavaScript is a natural fit, since it's also designed for the Internet and Unicode-based worldwide use," said Bill Joy, co-founder and vice president of research at Sun. "JavaScript will be the most effective method to connect HTML-based content to Java applets."

This was all actually implemented. JavaScript functions could call Java applet methods and vice versa (see https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/deplo... ). Of course over time everyone abandoned applets because of all the security problems, and JavaScript became a good enough language to write application logic directly in it. Still, there's more meaning behind the name than it just being a cynical marketing move.

lowercased 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Happenstance, but that press release you linked to was December 4, 1995 - exactly 30 years ago today!

mikepurvis 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The language now called Groovy would have been JavaScript if the name wasn’t already taken.

brabel 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Haha completely agree, it is the "scripting language" made in the image of Java! It's a great language by the way!

nunobrito 6 hours ago | parent [-]

There was also beanshell if you remember, of course never as polished nor adopted like groovy but it was also fun to use.

mikepurvis 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Is groovy actually really "adopted" much of anywhere? I feel like for 99% of normal people, their only real exposure to it is as the DSL of gradle and jenkins.

I can't imagine writing anything of substance primarily in groovy.

dizhn 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Rundeck uses it for its plugins. It might be like how people use lua for their main program's dynamic scripting except they know Java so they use groovy.

xxs 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>I can't imagine writing anything of substance primarily in groovy.

That's solely based on a poor imagination, not trying...

nunobrito 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Have to agree with the previous person. Never saw a relevant project made from Groovy. Even with Beanshell I've included it a few times in other projects for basic scripting/customization within the app but groovy? Never in 15 years to now.

mikepurvis 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I think embedding and testing/plugins/DSLs really is the main use-case. It's a terrible fit for a CLI tool if you've got to wait for a JVM to boot up, especially in a world where people are now used to those kinds of things being instantaneous rust or go binaries.

cubefox 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Of course over time everyone abandoned applets because of all the security problems,

Haha, or because it froze the whole browser for a few seconds upon loading. Unlike Macromedia Flash by the way.

phantasmish 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I had a flash ad take 100% of my cpu back around 2005 or so. It wasn’t even trying to be malicious, just a poorly made ad. That was the day I stopped allowing any site exceptions in my ad blocker.

Of course 100% of that cpu is probably 1/10 of one core on any of my modern machines, so an ordinary and not-broken ad laden page routinely eats several times as many cycles now. Progress!

moralestapia 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Websites can also use 100% of your CPU as well.

You might not be aware, but this is a trivial thing to do.

jerf 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The story is somewhat more complicated than that and not amenable to a simple summary, because there are multiple entities with multiple motivations involved. Keeping it simple, the reason why the press release babbles about that is that that is corporate Netscape talking at the height of the Java throat-forcing era. Those of you who were not around for it have no equivalent experience for how Java was being marketed back then because no language since then has been backed by such a marketing budget, but Java was being crammed down our throats whether you like it or not. Not entirely unlike AI is today, only programmers were being even more targeted and could have been seeing more inflation-adjusted-dollar-per-person spend since the set of people being targeted is so much smaller than AI's "everyone in the world" target.

This cramming did not have any regard for whether Java was a good solution for a given problem, or indeed whether the Java of that era could solve the problem at all. It did not matter. Java was Good. Good was Java. Java was the Future. Java was the Entire Future. Get on board or get left behind. It was made all the more infuriating for the fact that the Java of this time period was not very good at all; terrible startup, terrible performance, absolutely shitty support for anything we take for granted nowadays like GUIs or basic data structure libraries, garbage APIs shoved out the door as quickly as possible so they could check the bullet point that "yes, java did that" as quickly as possible, like Java's copy-of-a-copy of the C++ streaming (which are themselves widely considered a terrible idea and an antipattern today!).

I'm not even saying this because I'm emotional or angry about it or hate Java today. Java today is only syntactically similar to Java in the 90s. It hardly resembles it in any other way. Despite the emotional tone of some of what I'm saying, I mean this as descriptive. Things really were getting shoveled out the door with a minimum of design and no real-world testing so that the Java that they were spending so much marketing money on could be said that yes! It connected to this database! Yes! It speaks XML! Yes! It has a cross-platform GUI! These things all barely work as long as you don't subject them to a stiff breeze, but the bullet point is checked!

The original plan was for Java to simply be the browser language, because that's what the suits wanted, because probably that's what the suits were being paid to want. Anyone can look around today and see that that is not a great match for a browser language, and a scripting language was a better idea especially for the browser in the beginning. However, the suits did not care.

The engineers did, and they were able to sneak a scripting language into the browser by virtue of putting "Java" in the name, which was enough to fool the suits. If my previous emotional text still has not impressed upon you the nature of this time, consider what this indicates from a post-modern analysis perspective. Look at Java. Look at Javascript. Observe their differences. Observe how one strains to even draw any similarities between them beyond the basics you get from being a computer language. Yet simply slapping the word "Java" on the language was enough to get the suits to not ask any more questions until much, much later. That's how crazy the Java push was at the time... you could slip an entirely different scripting language in under the cover of the incredible propaganda for Java.

So while the press release will say that it was intended to glue Java applets, because that's what the suits needed to hear at that point, it really wasn't the case and frankly it was never even all that great at it. Turns out bridging the world between Java and Javascript is actually pretty difficult; in 2025 we pay the requisite memory and CPU costs without so much as blinking but in an era of 32 or 64 MEGAbyte RAM profiles it was nowhere near as casual. The reality is that what Javascript was intended to be by the actual people who created it and essentially snuck it in under the noses of the suits is exactly what it is today: The browser scripting language. I think you also had some problems like we still have today with WASM trying to move larger things back and forth between the environments, only much, much more so.

We all wish it had more than a week to cook before being shoved out the door itself, but it was still immensely more successful than Java ever could have been.

(Finally, despite my repeated use of the term "suits", I'm not a radical anti-business hippie hacker type. I understand where my paycheck comes from. I'm not intrinsically against "business people". I use the term perjoratively even so. The dotcom era was full of bullshit and they earned that perjorative fair and square.)

iberator 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Btw. What's your 3 favorite languages then?

iberator 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

wow. Do you have blog? You could totally write a book. Great style and verbose.