I was going to say this. Money comes, money goes, that’s life. Ideally you’re smart enough to save and invest to weather these storms but for those (like myself) that are still working hard post 40, we know it’s all part of the game.

I tell the younger generation the same thing. Save, invest, max 401k, before you go off and party. Your older self will thank you.

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johnnyanmac 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You telling someone with 50k in debt, turning in 1000's or job apps struggling to find a job they studied 4+ years for and not being able to even pay rent to "just save"... is exactly how we got into this situation to begin with.

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ethin 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm literally one of these people. My only work experience is a GSoC internship in 2021. I have yet to get hired and I've been looking for 4 years, graduated in 2022 right before ChatGPT came out. I've had no choice but to become a generalist as a consequence, and over the last year or two my interviews have dropped to zero and absolutely none of the advice I've gotten from anybody has helped. Just my personal experience.

	▲	johnnyanmac 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Yeah, I'm really sorry this happened. I'm managing a bit better since I graduated in 2017, but I still pretty much had my senior trajectory yoinked from under me. The market is completely different now than back when I graduated. I don't really have any advice for the present. We're in a storm, so do what you need to weather it. If there's any downtime you do have, use it to prepare for when (if?) the market bounces back: 1. Network. Nothing serious but just get to know people in your area. Keep in contact and they might one day have an in for some work. 2. work on personal projects. They aren't being looked at now, but it'll help you stand out when the market corrects itself. 3. consider some adjacent skillsets. At some point, if this last longer than any of us expect, it may be best to vouch for yourself. learning some graphic design can help you sell your own apps or make websites for others. Learning some art can help you sell games. embrace the generalization and be able to take small products from start to finih by youself. If you don't want to get completely out, you may want to start shaping your career around being your own boss instead of relying on others to employ you. 4. take care of your physical health. I don't know your body, and you may already be doing this. But it's always important to remind people (especially in a field like tech) that sometimes a breath of fresh air and 10 minutes of walking can make all the difference. Don't let yourself get cooped up. Best of luck out there.

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karlshea 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm gonna have to hold your hand when I tell you this: when you tell the younger generation to "save" or "invest" they are going to walk away from that conversation knowing they were just speaking with one of the most mind-numbingly naive Olds they're going to encounter in probably the next several months.

Please, if you ever want any respect from anyone younger than you ever again in your entire life, do not say those words again.

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reactordev 3 hours ago | parent [-]

At some point you are going to have to grow up and take matters into your own hands instead of blaming everyone for your situation.

I’m not old. Just wise.

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cjs_ac an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, and I agree taking responsibility for one's own life circumstances is the only way to improve them, but surely you understand that 'save and invest' is wholly unsuitable advice for someone with no disposable income or no income at all.

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reactordev an hour ago | parent [-]

Who else is responsible for you?

You have two options. Continue to point fingers and complain and be broke, or start putting $100/mo in VOO and save what little money you have for your future?

I know it sucks. I know income inequality is huge. I know the only way out of this is to put in sweat equity. I know the only way to put food on the table is to have a second job at a gas station. I’ve been there. However, as much as you DON’T want to hear it - the only way out of your mess is by you working your way out of your mess.

	▲	cjs_ac 34 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		As I said, I agree with taking personal responsibility - I'm not sure why you're still trying to fight me on that. > You have two options. Continue to point fingers and complain and be broke, or start putting $100/mo in VOO and save what little money you have for your future? The imaginary person you're trying to give this advice to graduated from university eighteen months ago and has been living in their parents' house ever since, applying for jobs non-stop. Their income is $0 per month. They are entirely unable to apply your advice; applying your advice is something they aspire to.
	▲	lotsofpulp 33 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		$100/month in VOO isn’t going to do anything (except help people like me who already own a lot). > the only way out of your mess is by you working your way out of your mess. Third option is revolution. Could be violent, could be passive like not starting families, complaining on the internet, scrolling tiktok as long as the benefits and body allow, and suicide if necessary. It is possible for too much of the benefits of working having too high of a likelihood of being captured by rent seekers to not make the work worth it. In old times, the lack of birth control made people have to work more due to needing to support kids, but if I didn’t have kids, I could get by with a much lower standard of living.

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watwut 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They cant fix the economy singlehandly. Blaming individuals for systemic problems is just avoidance.

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reactordev an hour ago | parent [-]

The only thing they can control is themselves and their habits though.

I’m not avoiding the fact that the economy is fucked. I’m fully aware. It’s up to you how much you’re willing to continue to pay or what you’re willing to sacrifice. It sucks, but the only thing you can control is yourself.

	▲	ungovernableCat 22 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		It’s just generic advice that doesn’t even really apply to the fresh grads, their issue is not having any entry point to a career anymore. I graduated 10 years ago and it’s a day and night difference. Whatever worked for me in 2015 will not work for a fresh grad today, the game is completely different.

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goodolddays9090 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm a bit over 40, not liking parts of my FAANG job, worried I'll lose it, and worried no where in the industry is as fun as 12 years ago, but being on the low end of Fat FIRE makes it a lot easier.

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aaronblohowiak 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

FI is more valuable than RE. After three years or so I got the itch again and decided to self fund my own thing. Also looking back on around 10 years ago more fondly..

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goodolddays9090 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah; I've heard a few people say versions of you get bored if you retire early, and I've soon to be retirees talk about how the people they know who retired to go do nothing just wasted away.

I like tech; my challenge now is finding a gig with interesting work and a good work-life balance and p75 pay. That, and knowing when I actually have enough net worth to have more freedom. The problem is you never think it's enough, but not because of greed, but because of fear.

	▲	chickensong 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Boredom is a personality trait IMHO. Some of us never get bored, there's only lack of time and funds for hobbies and exploring.

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goodolddays9090 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Also looking back on around 10 years ago more fondly

When the work didn't suck and the product didn't suck.

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cwbriscoe 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Being FI helped me out greatly in December 2020 when My company laid off half of my team and expected me to take on double the load, including lots of extra after hours on-call support. I had a pretty great time not working for ~3 years during Covid. However, I am back to work after an old friend and boss offered me a WFH job that I couldn't refuse. He has since retired so I will stick around until current management pisses me off again, they downsize me or I just get sick of logging into teams/outlook at 7AM every morning.

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lotsofpulp 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I tell the younger generation the same thing. Save, invest, max 401k, before you go off and party. Your older self will thank you.

401k max is $24,500. How much do you expect a person to earn to be able to max it out? And what percentile income is that at the bottom and top of the age range you consider “young”?

https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-age-calculator/

Tldr: you are telling almost every 20 to 30 year old to not party.

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SilverElfin 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Others are criticizing you but the reality is that people usually spend more and save less than they could. There are plenty of people with modest income who manage to build a decent retirement. But it takes discipline. You have to be okay with sacrificing for the future.

	▲	raffraffraff 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		As an "Old" who was a kid in the late 70s to early 90s, I'm telling young folks that there is no first world poverty like there was then. Not just because "we" were poor, but because you couldn't get "stuff" anyway. Like, the biggest TV I ever saw back them was 25". Nobody had a computer. Unemployment across the board was high. I saw my first kiwi fruit or avocado when I was 10. Clothes were expensive (even thrift / store brand). "Stuff" of any kind was expensive or non existent. Yesterday my BIL threw a perfectly working tower PC in the recycling because he couldn't find anyone (not even a charity shop) to take it. Last time I was at e-waste I saw half a dozen 42 inch TVs that I'm willing to bet we're working. However we were wealthy in one way: we had a stable home, and optimism. I may have had old clothes, one pair of worn shoes and a 4th-hand uncool bicycle, but there was no question of ever losing the roof over my head. And there was a future that looked like it was full of possibilities. "Stuff" was getting cheaper and more available. I remember our family being able to afford our first microwave oven. Our first VCR (1991). We didn't get rich, things got cheaper. Today, it's like we're looking at the future as if we're already post-peak, and it's all downhill from here. There's tons of stuff around but nobody wants it. People have also lost the positive attitude, optimism. It'll get you through a lot of bad times. Years and years of shit. Lose optimism, and it's all bleak no matter how big your TV is. If I could choose a safe to be reborn in, I'd take "our" poverty of the past over this.
	▲	johnnyanmac 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		>the reality is that people usually spend more and save less than they could. You can't save your way out of rent being 70, 80+% of your paycheck. For my area, minimum wage is $18 and your best hope for rent is sharing a $3k 2 bedroom apartment. quick napkin math suggests $2400 take home pay and ~$1800 eaten up between the rent split, utilities, gas, and the most basic rice and beans diet of "groceries". Not even including potential health insurance or car notes or student loans. If you don't have the fortune of a family who'd house you for free/dirt cheap then you don't have much to save. You're already sacrificing for the present.