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rhinoceraptor 10 hours ago

From my experience, it's grim at the moment for software developer jobs. I got laid off in August and it's been rough. I'm in my early 30s so I can't compare it to 2008, but I've been laid off before and I've never seen it this bad.

jdiff 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's grim everywhere, for everything, all at once. I haven't been able to find work as a graphic designer, motion designer, web designer, web developer, software developer, and a large variety of retail jobs. Been on the job hunt since May, all I've been able to find is a part time position at The Home Depot.

aorloff 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I gotta tell you man, if you can find someone in charge at the backend of the Home Depot and let them hire you as a systems uptime troubleshooter you would easily make any salary you could name for them tenfold.

I at at a Home Depot like 10 times a week and let me tell you, they have a major systems problem that is making their operations look like a joke

jdiff 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Funny you mention, I'm actually working on that, too. There's an internal career portal with a large variety of backend jobs. No interviews, follow-ups, or anything yet.

krackers 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>you would easily make any salary you could name for them tenfold.

>I at at a Home Depot like 10 times a week

And yet you still go to Home Depot, so from their perspective it's not an existential issue. Probably the biggest thing companies have learned recently is that they don't need 99.99% uptime, people will accept degraded performance because "that's just how technology works".

aorloff 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I am at 10 different supply stores too, Lowes, Ashby, Truitt and I get a shit ton of stuff delivered.

Everyone competes on price, so when I see everyone at Home Depot with their thumbs up their asses because the computers are down, I know that Ashby is eating their lunch on the margin. I'm sure Home Depot has enormous economies of scale that make up for it, but this is a current issue.

ux266478 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think that's an appropriate conclusion to draw from a single point of data.

csomar 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Home Depot is a chain, so the backend is probably being handled from some R&D center somewhere. Your maneuvering area at the local home depot is probably pretty slim.

pjdemers 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Back in the early 2000's I did consulting work with Home Depot's backend developers. Their office is the "store support center", which is in the NW suburbs of Atlanta. I remember the team as being very good, but surprisingly small.

torginus an hour ago | parent [-]

These things tend to corellate :)

jasonjayr 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've worked with a vendor listing products in their IDM (Item Data Management) System. IIRC, it's from https://www.stibosystems.com/ . From a SMB vendor supplying one type of product it's frustrating to work with, with a lot of back and forth and workflows for verifying all manner of compliance with data quality, global regulations, and laws. From their internal perspective, it's probably the bee's knees, supporting a wide variety of taxonomies, considering the variety of products they sell & support, some rather dangerous and hazardous.

From looking over the shoulders of the staff, some aspects of the system that I've seen as a supplier are directly visible to them too.

downrightmike 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

~~~Problems on purpose because they don't spend the time to fix it IE not going to hire anyone to fix shit because they still make billions this broken way~~~~

venturecruelty 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if it has anything to do with all of the 10-200% taxes we've levied on random things.

nicbou 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I don't know if it's as bad, but it's bad in Canada and Germany too. The whole world is doing pretty bad, it seems.

bequanna 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Offshoring (India + LATAM) with a side of h1b.

Offshoring is by far the biggest culprit. Plenty of Jr/Mid roles hiring…but not US based.

jdlshore 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Offshoring has been a thing for decades. Seriously, Yourdon wrote a doom-and-gloom book about it in the 90s. It was called “Decline and Fall of the American Programmer,” published 1992.

Then in 1996, he wrote “Rise and Resurrection of the American Programmer.”

The software industry is extremely fad-driven. During the pandemic, the fad was to hire programmers. That created a lot of busywork and coordination jobs that didn’t contribute to the bottom line.

Then Musk bought Twitter, laid off a bunch of folks, and things kept running. So the trend became “cut the fat.” In fairness, there actually was fat to cut.

Now boards are in cost-cutting mode and fantasizing about AI, so the pendulum has swung back towards offshoring. But that cost-cutting focus is going to lead to stagnation and self-cannibalization. Somebody’s going to buck the trend, have a splashy success, and the herd will trample back in the other direction.

johnnyanmac 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>But that cost-cutting focus is going to lead to stagnation and self-cannibalization. Somebody’s going to buck the trend, have a splashy success, and the herd will trample back in the other direction.

Yes. But sadly, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

And I feel there's going to be a huge storm to survive first. I imagine many may not even make it to the next shift.

yadaeno 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s been a thing, but Covid and remote work took away any possible argument to no offshore everything ASAP.

WalterBright 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As always, free markets are a chaotic system of creative destruction.

lesuorac 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Then Musk bought Twitter, laid off a bunch of folks, and things kept running.

I'm not sure you can give credit to Musk here. Buying a company and cutting all R&D to "juice" profits isn't his invention. Twitter is really around still in spite of his efforts as opposed to because of them; other CEOs might be doing layoffs but they're also not going out doing sieg heils. As well as he really fired them for fealty reasons and not economic ones.

It should be very telling that Grok came out of X.ai and not X. Ultimately, Musk did have to reverse some of the layoffs although with a bit of slight of hand so that Twitter could release any sort of new products.

johnnyanmac 6 hours ago | parent [-]

It's not "his" thing, but he and a few early layoffs certainly made it trendy to do so. It's a small club, so seeing any "members" take any action is a sign they should follow suit.

csomar 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This started before the tariffs, so no direct link. Interest rates are more to blame.

9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
SoftTalker 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Construction, trades, and basically physical-world stuff that AI cannot do are still hiring.

ux266478 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

People will roll out the trades whenever employment is mentioned, but do you have tradies in your family? Do you have friends who are tradies? It's not easy to get in, it takes a long time to make journeyman, and work can have seriously spotty periods no matter who you are. Fact of the matter is, it's not really an alternative to anything except other types of bluecollar work.

citrin_ru an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Construction, trades e. t. c. will have not many customers with other professions facing unemployment so it's not a safe bet either.

AstroNutt 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Believe it or not, I've been in construction/remodeling for 35 years. We currently have 3 home remodels going on at the moment with more down the road. I've never experienced a slow down. Even during COVID.

I'm not your typical HN member I don't think. I've been a computer nerd since I was 14 years old. I come here to stimulate my inner nerd.

cyanmagenta 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I've never experienced a slow down

You didn’t experience a slowdown at the height of the recession circa 2008?

johnnyanmac 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

being in construction for 35 years must mean they're already in the place that does the layoffs (instead of being laid off) by the time things get bad. You can easily say things don't slow down when you're divorced from the increasingly strained workers with less hours and benefits doing the construction.

jerlam 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Homeowners are often rich and older and isolated from recessions.

AstroNutt 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nope. Things still break and need repaired no matter how the housing market is.

wincy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seconding this, I work as a SWE for a large construction company, while the IT department is small considering the large scope of the company as a whole, but we’ve been extremely busy. Construction is absolutely booming.

mgh95 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How did you get into construction/remodeling, and how would someone best reach out to this community? I have been thinking about some construction related ideas (mostly around prefab automation and sales) and haven't the slightest idea how to reach these types of people.

I am always curious about people who are strongly oriented towards one thing (computing) but somehow wind up in another area, such as construction.

AstroNutt 6 hours ago | parent [-]

When I was a sophomore in high school, I worked part time for my neighbor who was a master electrician. I learned the basics with him. My parents divorced when I was 17 and we were forced to move away. My mother was an assistant manager at the apartments we lived at. I turned 18 and just so happened the complex she worked at was hiring someone to do make readies, (painting and repairs on vacant units before new move-ins).

The management company my mother and I worked for sent me to various classes over the next several years (electrical, plumbing, HVAC and pool maintenance) and my supervisor was an old HVAC tech. I learned a ton from him. By the time I was 22 or so, I was promoted to maintenance director.

I got bored with apartments and wanted more. I started doing side work and met a lady that owned lots of rental property. That opened doors and she introduced me to other investors. Eventually, I was able to leave the apartment industry and do my own thing. It just kind of blew up from there.

As far as your construction related ideas, just put yourself out there. Meet people in the industry. Go to local industry related events. See if the city you live in has real estate investor clubs. DFW has a few and it's a great opportunity to meet people. This is also a great way to pick up work. Rent houses are always needing things repaired or replaced.

I know Mueller metal buildings is always looking for sales people. They were even looking for an IT person not too long ago too. In the rural area of Texas I'm in, we finish out lots of them and seem to becoming more and more popular in recent years.

mschuster91 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem is, for construction, trades and what remains of agriculture the competition is brutal. It's a low-skill job in terms of prior required education which means there is a looooot of people without degrees flooding into that market already, and then comes immigration that's further driving the wages down because (again) it's work that doesn't require much education or language skills.

I've done a stint in construction (I think y'all call it "civil engineering", aka digging trenches and moving soil) myself, it was rare to find Germans - most of my colleagues came from Eastern Europe.

honkycat 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yea! Start over my career, work way longer and harder hours, and make 1/3 of what I currently do! Sounds great!

johnnyanmac 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same story here. I work in games so it's always been boom or bust. It's real bad now.

- out of college it took 3 months to find work. It sucked, took over 100 apps, but I found a nice project.

- after that project ended, 3 more months (but less stressful because I had more than one role I was interviewing with).

- Then layoffs, another 3 months in 2022 where it was very competitive (I was in at least 4-5 interview pipelines before my first choice accepted my offer).

- Then that studio quickly shuttered and I haven't found anything full time in 2.5 years. Freelancing kept me up until that wasn't enough, and then I found some non-tech part time work.

working harder than ever with 2 jobs + more portfolio work to prepare for interviews despite having 9 years of experience now. This feels worse than the horror stories I'd hear when finding my first job.

port11 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Game dev acquaintances here in Belgium and back in Turkey say it's never been so bad. Studios aren't shutting down but also not hiring over here. Your industry is not having a good time…

throwaway-0001 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can hire you if you decent and don’t expect high salary ports-spatial5c@icloud.com

mollusc-engine 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I became a USPS mail carrier instead.

Certainly less pay but I love being outside and walking.

And no Jira, changing the color of that button, or steeping myself in Frank’s eldritch horror code.

protocolture 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>No Jira

If I was trying to attract intelligent applicants looking for work outside of software engineering, that would be in the headline.

ta12653421 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Tried that here in EU - no chance so far: Even things I could do easily like office administration/management or whatever projectmanagement - no luck.

JLO64 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As someone who is currently delivering Amazon packages with their own vehicle (Amazon Flex), what’s the process like to become a mail carrier? The miles are starting to take a toll on my car, so delivering for USPS is tempting for me…

dehrmann 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> And no Jira

Not officially, but once you remove the skills required for the tasks, it's not all that different.

rootusrootus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My wife and I have a running joke about her giving up accounting and working for USPS instead. Some days I think she’s serious.

pyuser583 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Are they even hiring?

clumsysmurf 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would definitely try this if the vehicles in Phoenix ran cleaner. The old ones have such bad smelling exhaust and you are always breathing it because of the semi-open cab.

fragmede 8 hours ago | parent [-]

electric vehicles are on the way! no clue when Phoenix will get them though

fHr 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah but isn't the pay shit? like making 1/3th is not a win in my books.

mollusc-engine 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I have hella money.

8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
cute_boi 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It is all due to outsourcing. AI/H1B isn't taking that much job. Unless government put penalties on outsourcing market isn't going to improve.

bottlepalm 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm seeing like 80% of software dev applications at my company are H1B/OPT, like thousands of candidates - and they're getting hired just because of the sheer numbers they drown everyone else out. So yes, they are 100% taking jobs. A lot of them. I can't comprehend how there are so many.

rightbyte 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

Maybe there is some pool of candidates that applies to all jobs due to automation making the numbers scewed?

intended 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The market is K shaped.

The peope will wealth are doing well, the rest of the market is not.

There are only so many apps and goods that can be made for rich people/small subset of consumers.

I bet you will find that people working on investment ideas and finance tools which focus on wealth accumulation will be hiring.

itake 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yep. Trump added tariffs on physical goods, but there are no taxes on service imports.

ivankra 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Section 174's 15 years amortization rule on foreign R&D is kind of an indirect tax.

itake 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Overseas labor spend their salary overseas and pay no US taxes. still not the samething.

brightball 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There was talk of it. I believe the H.I.R.E. Act that’s been proposed is supposed to add a 25% fee to outsourcing overseas.

itake 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Probably a step in the right direction. But if you can hire someone abroad for 20% of the cost of an American worker, then instead of replacing one American with five workers, you replace them with four.

dilyevsky 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wait until you hear what he did to h1b program!

itake 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The 100k fee on new applicants? drop in the ocean.

The h1b people spend (most) of their salary in the USA and pay US income taxes. Whereas overseas labor spend their salary over seas and pay no US taxes.